The PT got couple more races which change the picture at the top and botton a lot.
PT events with the TT in Herbiers, sprinter classic GP Moscow and the cobbles in East Midlands alongside PTHC in Slovenie, Nakhon, SanSebastian, SAA Afrique, Paris Tours and Balkans.
In general a lot for sprinters with a bit for puncheurs as well. Balkans having a bit for hybrids.
Best of the PT was Moser due to Bewley mainly. High scoring in SAA Afrique and winning East Midlands was key for them alongside Sagan`s good performance in Balkans.
Grieg Maersk comes out 2nd and might jump away from the relegation spots completely. Decent races everywhere really. From TT to cobbles to sprints.
Isostar in 3rd and this might see them moving into the PT lead again as Evonik in 8th only has scored less points despite a good Balkans performance by Lopez.
Air France got consistency by Kennaugh and Tinkoff a bit of a surprise win in Nakhon.
At the bottom Gazelle with a low performance and might be out of the PT title competition.
Next Aegon, who despite having lots of race days in this period got really a low scoring and lose a lot of ground on other relegation teams. Indosat, cycleYorkshire scored quite less as well and will still be below the line, while UBS, Rakuten and in especially Aker and Volvo had better periods.
Team
Slo
TT
Nak
Mos
Seb
SAA
Emi
Pto
Bal
Total
1
Moser - Sygic
0
43
0
56
62
232
265
0
316
974
2
Grieg-Maersk
0
188
143
101
0
84
247
195
0
958
3
Isostar - Specialized
0
235
0
196
85
85
183
0
138
922
4
Air France - KLM
0
91
0
260
112
325
25
0
91
904
5
Team Tinkoff - La Datcha
0
136
172
65
11
100
223
18
51
776
6
eBuddy
0
89
53
137
0
300
83
106
0
768
7
Festina - OAKA
0
137
102
111
63
0
30
127
154
724
8
Evonik - ELKO
88
15
0
149
17
0
93
0
281
643
9
ISA - Hexacta
0
20
133
45
52
198
45
86
39
618
10
Volvo acc. by Spotify
2
40
0
158
0
238
149
0
0
587
11
Aker - MOT
0
36
0
81
24
47
54
0
337
579
12
Bennelong - Mitchelton
393
20
0
123
0
0
26
0
0
562
13
Team Puma - SAP
0
80
0
70
4
235
40
0
128
557
14
Rakuten Pro Cycling
94
25
0
164
27
17
70
0
159
556
15
Team UBS
245
93
2
40
0
10
105
4
0
499
16
King Power
340
39
0
78
0
0
37
0
0
494
17
EA Vesuvio
0
51
71
64
32
28
35
69
118
468
18
cycleYorkshire
182
134
22
63
0
0
35
14
0
450
19
Generali
310
27
0
40
0
0
72
0
0
449
20
Indosat Ooredoo
0
149
0
60
79
0
15
0
112
415
21
Aegon - Peroni
0
25
2
63
104
0
51
2
123
370
22
Gazelle
0
46
0
45
28
0
98
0
144
361
The total ranking sees Isostar and Evonik swap positions and all is looking good for Isostar now as they also used less race days. Puma still in a position to maybe jump into the top spot while Festina, Moser and Gazelle look to be too far behind.
Further down Grieg has left the relegation positions and actually got a very good gap as well now in 14th position.
ISA, Volvo and Aker follow above the line, which means Aegon is down 3 spots and having a small gap as well now as first relegation team.
UBS, Rakuten, cycleYorkshire and Indosat as well below the line.
While the last update saw me very optimistic actually, this update just shows how much my team underperformed lately...
2nd lowest scoring when I expected to be close to top3-5 in those couple races.
Groenewegen in sprinter classic Nakhon - no show
Groenewegen in sprinter classic Moscow - no show
Groenewegen in sprinter classic Paris Tours - no show
De Bie in Balkans - no show
Van Hooydonck in East Midlands - no high expectations but he could at least go into scoring range a few times a season
In the end 4 races, where my leaders underperformed completely by being ignored from the AI and dropped from all races for no reason. I feel, the points missed in those races, should have seen my team moving up close to 12th to 14th area actually, but it wasn`t meant to be.
Then 4th in San Sebastian, which is fine I guess, but when having the best puncheur stat wise, 1 single podium stage performance all season seems a bit low I guess.
2nd and 4th from a break in Balkans being the biggest points says enough.
Not giving up yet despite the 150 point gap. But really need the team to stop being dropped on every single stage. They should start in the TONE, where Boom obviously no longer is a top guy, but maybe Van der Poel can show something alongside De Bie actually for the hilly stage, where he might be able to finally show his advantage.
Groenewegen must perform in his remaining races, which in especially means Deutschland but also Maroc and Tasmania.
Olivier`s Tour du Maroc might be the most important race left as he hopefully can fight for the win there or coming into podium range.
And obviously Lombardia, where I though expect the next De Bie fail.
With Aker and Volvo likely having some options such as Kwiatkowski or Ahlstrand in similar races, I fear, the gap is too big, maybe ISA can be pulled down as well...
Thank you for the update! It's looking quite good for us, but it will be a very tense fight at the very end. I'd say from 1st to 4th everything is still possible (without knowing the startlists)
Thank you for the update, roturn. And wow, this will be a tense finish to the season! Must admit I hopen we would have a bigger gap down to the relegation spots after Kwiatek’s heroics in Balkans. As it stands noe, I’m afraid we’re favourites for the fifth relegation spot, as we’re not scoring any points in races Kwiatek’s isn’t part of. That’s obviously a huge, huge problem, as we’re only got Lombardia and Tasmania (I think/hope) left for him.
I expect Aegon to pass us with quite a margin, as they’ve got Morocco left as a great scoring opportunity. That means we need to pass either ISA or Volvo, and both have more race days left.
Still think we’re going down, but Kwiatek’s win in Balkans definitely allow us to dream of survival. Without such a scoring there, it would have been game over already. We really need a surprise result which brings home some points. Fingers crossed Hampus can hear me, as he might have a shot at doing something decent in ToNE with the TT and cobbles.
Interesting update, anything could still happen I think. I do hope Aegon gets a bit more lucky (or less unlucky?) with their non-performing leaders. Looking forward to the other ranking updates
A great update for us. As you mention roturn, solid in all races and that gives us some much needed breathing space. Good performances in our next three races, ToNe, Deutschland Tour and Rheden GP will hopefully ensure that we have a safe margin down to the teams below before the final month of the season.
I really hope we get to see De Bie/Groenewegen delivering something towards the end of the season as they have been really disappointing in the last few races. Could be very close towards the end as there aren't any big scoring days left for Degenkolb/Ahlstrand. Stallaert could possibly score good for Volvo in ToNe and Rheden or Battenkill, while Aker need Kwiato to be at his very best again. My guess that Volvo probably looks the safest out of the four and that it's going to be extremly close amongst the other tree.
Close at the top as well, but a good update for Isostar. ToNe is a race that could go in different directions for the top teams and I would think that Phinney still Deutschland and/or Tasmania left, so they are the favourites. Thanks for the update, roturn!
We haven't done particularly bad in any of those recent races, but to have a shot at the PT podium we would have needed Coquard to step up and take a classic win. He didn't, and unfortunately the points "lost" from semigood races is the difference between being in the title run, and fighting for a top 5.
Despite us having a decent number of racedays remaining compared to our competitors, we also have two very very bad PT races, where I expect Evonik, Isostar and Moser to shine - Puma might be more in the same boat as we are there though, so with some luck we could overtake them due to higher RD's left.
We expected 6500 points prior to the season which would normally give us a 3rd place (6598 in 2020, 6316 in 2019 and 6358 in 2018). This year it does seem like 6500 will not even give a top 5 though. So we need to find an additional 5-700 points in our remaining 4 races to have a realistic shot at top 3. And I honestly don't think that's possible.
Looking at our riders (Despite not being ranked here), we see that Lecuisinier, Koretzky, Vlatos, van Niekerk, Karatzios and Giannoutsos already being above expected, with all bar Lecuisinier still having races to go - while Coquard, Boily, Kastrantas, Bouglas, Miltiadis and Kiriakidis are all very likely to also move past that point.
This leaves only Bongiorno, Budyak and Nizzolo as dissapointments, while Ioannidis and Zoidl both went a bit worse than expected too. The MO/TT domestiques in general seem less important than last season, where those riders often scored 150-300 points.
Not a good section of racing for us as Isostar massively outscores us here. Especially with races like Moscow, San Sebastian or East Midlands which should have been key races for us to get ahead and instead gave us further ground to make up. This certainly pushed Isostar into the favourite role. 200 points difference plus Phinney in Deutschland will be nearly impossible to overcome.
ToNE could be the next hurtful race since i suspect that Isostar will have superior GC performance there as well...
Once again we are middle of the pack in pretty much every scoring update except in GT's for some reason, despite two okay GT riders, so its tough to think what could have been if they had actually performed, and if my team was active in those races, instead of being passive for pretty much the entire Vuelta and Tour.
I guess its better to bring "weaker riders" who can do well, and then get Race day bonuses for "overperforming" rather than bringing stronger riders who underperform and get negative RDCs. That feature honestly breaks the game imo, since its not random.
Been very busy lately and time is not enough to hang on here anymore.
This will be my last season in the amazing forum game, its been a pleasure being a part of it! Thanks to SN and Roturn and everybody else who have kept this running!
Been very busy lately and time is not enough to hang on here anymore.
This will be my last season in the amazing forum game, its been a pleasure being a part of it! Thanks to SN and Roturn and everybody else who have kept this running!
Indeed this is pretty sad news.
It was a fun time with you over several seasons and thanks for your information to make it easier to organize it once hitting the real offseason.
Big hit for Scandinavian MG teams but I guess some of those will already start to look out for your riders.
Maybe you find time to come by from time to time to see how your riders do in the future for other teams.
(Maybe, you can just stop scoring from now on then...and allow me to pass your team. )
Really bad news, viking, sorry to see you go! As others mentioned, you do have a great team, and it's a shame to see it disband. But well, maybe you'll start over again later
Concerning the rankings, I really think it's a shame to have a GT winning team that low. But as we all know, the Giro really wasn't a good race points-wise for the GC-focused teams. On the other hand, the breakaway luck is exactly what brings Isostar in that great position (of course, they also have the perfect riders for that strategy!). And I have to agree with valverde that those non-random breakaway appearances kind of break the game, clearly favouring some teams over others having similar riders. But well, in the Isostar case we also have to mention the risky but obviously clever Phinney planning. In any case, I'm looking forward to a close end-of-the-year battle at the top
At the bottom, I'd love to see UBS climb up to a non-relegating spot, but that looks pretty much out of reach now... And as much as I like Volvo, with the latest news I'd actually prefer both Aker and Aegon stay up and the Swedes go down. On the other hand, having 6 promoting PCT teams would grant one of them to stay up next season. Anyway, the battle will probably be very close for that 5th spot as well!
Fabianski wrote:
And I have to agree with valverde that those non-random breakaway appearances kind of break the game, clearly favouring some teams over others having similar riders.
I want to heavily disagree with this narrative. You can say a lot about this game, but not that the breakaway AI is very bad. Opposed to that, it is very good, and here is why: Contrary to your and valverdes argument, the AI sets exactly the teams up for the breakaway that should be there. It's not so much about the riders itself, it's about how the team is structured. There is a reason why my team didn't go in the breakaway in the Balcans International than f.e. in the Giro, and that is for a simple reason: If you don't have a leader capable of racing for something, than it makes sense that the game commits more and more riders from that team to a potential breakaway. If you nominate a sprinter and a GC rider the game will have them not attacking and most probably those also not protected, while a team without anything to ride for goes obviously goes all out on a break with substantive efforts (and commits riders to chase breakaways without them). That is why irl a guy riding for a weaker team more often ends up in a break than a rider from a bigger team with more stage & GC ambitions. That is why a rider like Perichon or Gogl ends up in a TdF break in the first week while riding for B&B Hotels or NTT while he wouldn't if he'd ride for a proper GC or sprinter team. This analogy can be used for team discrepancies as well. Calmejane went for awesome breakaways at the Balcans International in MG19 while he only had one (useless) appearance in 2020. And that is because while having the same rider, the team was different with a "statistical" captain on board (despite not performing well). That is also why a guy like Roman ends up in Giro-breakaways for Isostar but not at the Balcans International.
This whole phenomenon is not unrealistic. It's actually the opposite: For the first time in PCM the breakaway AI is realistic in terms of composition. We're just not used to that happening. I don't want to critizise anything with this post, but I think it's time to finally get rid of the narrative that "random" teams and riders get picked for breaks, because it's quite clearly not true in this game.
I kinda agree on both sides. I don't think the breakaway AI works perfectly by any means. Teams with a leader that is positioned poorly is often IRL adopting the breakaway strategy - not only with the leader, but also with the domestiques. This doesn't happen often in this game. Every now and again a top rider has messed up a race enough for him to be free to breakaway (Eg. Boasson Hagen), but rarely is his team mates set free during that period of time for him to get to that point. IRL you would instantly see INEOS set free their riders when their GC rider breaks. The GC rider himself may attack later when he regains confidence, but the others doesn't waste good race form, by sitting on their asses.
I do however agree that it seems possible to plan your team towards breakaway succes, which I haven't really felt before. Not to this extent atleast. And this I like a lot. I will definately be trying to play around with that a bit next season with my greek/cypriot riders. Having riders like Bongiorno seems a bit wasted however as you could sign 2 solid breakaway riders that also works fine as helpers, rather than having one of those 8-15th GC riders that just bring everything to a hault. I am eager to see how people interpret this in the upcoming season, as I see a lot of room to maneuvre in from a tactical point of view - and I kinda like that.
Oh and on the "clever Phinney planning"-thing. I would expect Phinney to be on 2000 points right now with Deutschland remaining. Last season he ended on 2000 points without +2 MO. I would think that there is aproximately 250 points for him in Deutschland if he performs like he should. The question is, wouldn't he have scored those 250 points more regardless of the planning? I would expect him to score similar to Herklotz, as both can with GT's, week long GC races and stages (albeit different types). Phinney get's "free points" from TT races.
Honestly seeing him in Tasmania would make more sense than Deutschland - but who knows if he'll be there. That could give him 50-100 points more than Deutschland.
So my guess, knowing croatia is that the "gamble" isn't Deutschland, but rather Tasmania + Lombardia
)
