|
Stat distribution
|
| Londoner |
Posted on 14-07-2014 13:58
|
Junior Rider
Posts: 40
Joined: 19-08-2010
PCM$: 200.00
|
Hi all!
This might be particularly interesting for DB makers.
I've been playing quite a bit of PCM14 and noticed that the mountain gameplay has improved significantly where there are small groups of riders and 'realistic' gaps, which is good.
BUT on 'short' mountains (<8km or so) the groups remain too large (groups of 20,30, even 40) especially on hilly stages, where 100 riders finish in a group.
So I have been looking closely at the stats and generally across all DBs (for MO stat) there is a group of 10-15 riders in the 80s. That means on long (>15km) mountain stages the top 10-15 are all small groups and realistic gaps are created.
Now, a very large group of people have a MO Stat between 74-79. In my opinion the group of riders between 70-79 is too big meaning that those groups are likely to finish among themselves (odd one out with a -5/+5 day).
So my question is: Has anyone played around with the stat distribution of riders? If so, what happens if more riders have 55 MO and 65 MO and less riders have 70-79 MO? this would surely create bigger gaps on 'short' climbs and hills and create more realistic gaps, no?
Edited by Londoner on 14-07-2014 14:04
|
| |
|
|
| Geordie1892 |
Posted on 14-07-2014 14:05
|
Junior Rider
Posts: 28
Joined: 21-09-2012
PCM$: 200.00
|
Makes sense, but then what would the knock-on effect be on the long climbs? Wouldn't it then mean that the gaps on the longer climbs (>8km) become too large for those with 80+ compared to those who used to be in the 70s and are now down in the 65 range ? |
| |
|
|
| Londoner |
Posted on 14-07-2014 14:09
|
Junior Rider
Posts: 40
Joined: 19-08-2010
PCM$: 200.00
|
That could be a side effect. Although riders rated 79 still exist but in smaller groups.
Obviously some riders really do reserve 79 MO but there are more than double of the riders rated 79MO than all rated above 80.
But generally reduce the group of riders rated 76-79MO a little.
And make a larger group of riders rated 60-67MO.
I am just watching the Tour and even on the first climb which was 10km the majority of riders were left behind but caught on again on the descent.
Or on the stage were Trentin beat Sagan. That 'little' hill created a lot of gaps, whereas in PCM a mass sprint would probably occur haha
Edited by Londoner on 14-07-2014 14:17
|
| |
|
|
| Geordie1892 |
Posted on 14-07-2014 14:21
|
Junior Rider
Posts: 28
Joined: 21-09-2012
PCM$: 200.00
|
Yeah, i've watching closely too (excellent racing with an air of mystery as to who can win each stage) and could lead to an epic TDF.
I would suggest that the gaps noticeable in real life are related to more than simply the ability to climb. It can come down to strategy (why go with the group chasing the last points if that's not your focus? simply let them go and catch them on the descent/flat and conserve energy). It also is affected by turn-of-speed (acc) as well. So many factors which are hard to effect in the game perhaps.
In regard to stat ratings (more at 79 than total above 80) can be created by simply applying a bell-curve (aka normal distribution). Those at 79 will include those who are rated 79 at their peak, those who are improving and will join the rating of 80+ in future and those who used to be in the group of 80+.
Personally I'd suggest the groups are about right, but the gaps would be created more realistically if the climbs and sprints could be 3:1 (rather than 10:1) with the flat being condensed to 15:1 or 20:1 to compensate.
Just my opinion of course. (also based on previous versions as I haven't started a race in PCM2014 as yet due to difficulty with 'objectives'. Would appreciate your thoughts if you care to chip in? 
https://pcmdaily.c...d_id=36011
Cheers
Rob |
| |
|
|
| tellico |
Posted on 14-07-2014 15:10
|
Neo-Pro
Posts: 263
Joined: 13-09-2010
PCM$: 200.00
|
I noticed a common morbid obsession with the perfect representation of all results. But we need to remember that in real life gaps can be bigger beacause there are real people. You cant drop MO in most of the riders beacause this attrib represents they best possible ride.
In real life most of them just give up if they have no chance for win or are just helpers and did wht they should. Game cant translate this in 100%. Rider A yesterday won hard mountain stage and today he lost 5 mins bcoz he not fought for the best time. So what attrib You want to give him? 79 beacause he won or 72 because he lost 5 min and "gaps should be realistic"? Of course, in generally, time gaps should be realistic but this blind chasing of the ideal can distort the the game itself (vide very high flat for all in PCM Focus DB only beacause they think that riders drops from peloton too often on the flat stages...)
Edited by tellico on 14-07-2014 15:12
|
| |
|
|
| Geordie1892 |
Posted on 14-07-2014 15:32
|
Junior Rider
Posts: 28
Joined: 21-09-2012
PCM$: 200.00
|
I agree, in fact I think we have just discussed exactly that above... |
| |
|
|
| Geordie1892 |
Posted on 14-07-2014 15:32
|
Junior Rider
Posts: 28
Joined: 21-09-2012
PCM$: 200.00
|
double post
Edited by Geordie1892 on 14-07-2014 15:32
|
| |
|
|
| Londoner |
Posted on 14-07-2014 15:37
|
Junior Rider
Posts: 40
Joined: 19-08-2010
PCM$: 200.00
|
Sure. It is more complex than just climbing ability.
But it is generally odd to see a group of 50-100 riders finish in a group on a stage that is classified as a Mountain stage only because the length of climbs (especially hills) are too short in game to cause splits. We cannot adjust the scale but what we can play around with is the stat distribution, hence I am asking if anyone experimented with this.
The daily form does quite a good job at distributing riders stat. So 1 day a rider with 75 can win a MO stage and the next day he can lose by 5mins because of daily form. But what I am saying is that sooo many riders are at 75-79 that even if half have a bad form and half a good there are still 30 riders that are in the same groups.
Looking at the flat stat distribution (basing it on Adamb DB) the distribution is far more accurate imo. With very little at 80 or higher and a few at 79. A couple more at 78 so on. |
| |
|
|
| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 15-07-2014 22:34
|
Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
|
Londoner wrote:
Sure. It is more complex than just climbing ability.
But it is generally odd to see a group of 50-100 riders finish in a group on a stage that is classified as a Mountain stage only because the length of climbs (especially hills) are too short in game to cause splits. We cannot adjust the scale but what we can play around with is the stat distribution, hence I am asking if anyone experimented with this.
The daily form does quite a good job at distributing riders stat. So 1 day a rider with 75 can win a MO stage and the next day he can lose by 5mins because of daily form. But what I am saying is that sooo many riders are at 75-79 that even if half have a bad form and half a good there are still 30 riders that are in the same groups.
Looking at the flat stat distribution (basing it on Adamb DB) the distribution is far more accurate imo. With very little at 80 or higher and a few at 79. A couple more at 78 so on.
The problem with reducing the amount of riders between 75-79 mtn or hill stat is that it would create I believe even bigger gaps on longer climbs (which I think has been said)
To reduce this amount, riders would have to go down and most don't deserve to go down, or they would have to go up and then again most don't deserve to be boosted up to 80.
I think the real problem is not the actual stats, but the fact that the game doesn't recognize the different types of climbers apart from just mtn and hill. As there are climbers suited to smooth gradient and those that like it really steep, I think the game really needs another kind of climbing stat or something that can affect or recognize the different type of climbers. |
| |
|
|
| Ad Bot |
Posted on 07-12-2025 10:44
|
Bot Agent
Posts: Countless
Joined: 23.11.09
|
|
| IP: None |
|
|
| Geordie1892 |
Posted on 15-07-2014 23:40
|
Junior Rider
Posts: 28
Joined: 21-09-2012
PCM$: 200.00
|
Couldn't agree more. In addition, the factor that the game will always fail to deliver upon is the rider's desire to win or compete on a stage. Sometimes it just simply isn't the plan to win the stage (eg. Nibali not really chasing Gallopin too hard on stage 9 knowing that he was likely to get the leader's jersey back on stage 10) |
| |
|
|
| Londoner |
Posted on 16-07-2014 02:18
|
Junior Rider
Posts: 40
Joined: 19-08-2010
PCM$: 200.00
|
Bigger gaps on longer MO wouldn't occur because there are still riders rated 79,78, so on, just less.
More groups of riders would exist.
|
| |
|
