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PCM.daily DB Stats discussion
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 04-04-2014 10:45
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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The problem with Sagan being 78 or 77 is that for example he's still about 4 points higher then say Cancellara in the hill stat and Cancellara is always capable of dropping Sagan over the bergs of Flanders, Even in the E3 Harelbeke Sagan couldn't stay with Thomas either and only came back on the flat. Making 77 and 78 too high for him. I think is once third spot finish in the Amstel Gold has made him overvalued in the hill stat cat for the DB.
I think Greipel is good at 82 because he's as fast as say Cavendish when the conditions for him are good. He's like a juggernaut in that he builds upto a certain speed and then goes straight for the line, whereas Cave is more like a sports car that can accelerate where needed, so to recognize this I'd drop Greipel a couple of points in acceleration.
So if keeping Cave and Kittle on 82 I'd then put Greipel 82/80
Edited by Tafiolmo on 04-04-2014 10:46
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| lluuiiggii |
Posted on 05-04-2014 21:32
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8425
Joined: 30-07-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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raulvasa_9 wrote:
About the sprint, last Amstel Gold Race [Valverde] won the bunch sprint ahead Kwiato, Gerrans and Gilbert. 1st race after his banned, he defeated Gerrans in Willunga Hill. He don´t usually sprint in GT or massive sprint for keep energy for next races, but when he sprint in one day races he used to be the fastest
He attacked with Gerrans and Gilbert on the Cauberg, Gilbert led all the way to the finish and opened the sprint. They were caught literally on the line by the bunch, so Valverde definitely didn't win the bunch sprint, he basically beat Gerrans and a tired Gilbert.
As for Willunga, the simple fact that Valverde and Gerrans reached the finish alone shows that it was rather about who had the most legs, can't take that result as a pure sprint one.
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| dbreality |
Posted on 06-04-2014 22:37
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Free Agent
Posts: 141
Joined: 27-01-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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I admit that it may not be a priority, but there are some changes that must be made as far as many "less famous" riders are concerned :
- Arnaud Gérard should have 69TT minimum, because of his recent performances over the last couple of years.
- Gregor Mühlberger must be improved, Prologue and Hills. he seems to be a revelation considering his two wins so far.
Edited by dbreality on 06-04-2014 22:42
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| Jesleyh |
Posted on 07-04-2014 06:14
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World Champion
Posts: 14743
Joined: 21-07-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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Always welcome 
Feyenoord(football) and Kelderman fanboy
PCMdaily Awards: 12x nomination, 9x runner-up, 0x win.
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| dbreality |
Posted on 07-04-2014 23:44
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Free Agent
Posts: 141
Joined: 27-01-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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And also Denis Zhuykov. His perfs in Grand Prix of Adygeya 2013 were quite good : 7th in TT and 5th in Hilly stage in Guzeripl. |
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| irdalopez |
Posted on 11-04-2014 09:03
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Under 23
Posts: 76
Joined: 06-04-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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Hello!
the next update will be before or after Giro? |
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| admirschleck |
Posted on 13-04-2014 15:39
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Team Leader
Posts: 6566
Joined: 11-10-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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81 - Cancellara (82 myb), Vanmarcke, Terpstra
80 - Boonen
79 - Styby, GVA, ...
78 - Degenkolb, Sagan, Thomas...
77 - Wiggins, Langeveld...
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 11-09-2026 21:57
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Bot Agent
Posts: Countless
Joined: 23.11.09
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| Selwink |
Posted on 13-04-2014 15:44
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8700
Joined: 17-05-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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SSJ2Luigi wrote:
You know you have played to mch PCM when... you immediatly after a real stage, talk about stat increases
Anyway, would give De Backer 77 as well. Where the hell did he come from?
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| cio93 |
Posted on 13-04-2014 15:45
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World Champion
Posts: 10617
Joined: 29-10-2007
PCM$: 500.00
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If you don't win PR on the cobbles, you don't deserve 81 per se imo.
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 13-04-2014 15:46
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 17059
Joined: 27-07-2011
PCM$: 16838.70
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Agree with that, although I'd maybe still rate Terpstra and Boonen the same. I think if Terpstra had been the one attacking all day it would probably be the opposite results, and it comes down to that more than actual difference.
And I don't even know about Wiggins. Like, seriously, what the hell do you give that? 
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| gotlandrules |
Posted on 13-04-2014 15:46
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1350
Joined: 07-05-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Terpstra doesn't deserve the same COB stat as Vanmarke and Fabian. They distanced him on the cobbles. |
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 13-04-2014 15:47
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 18071
Joined: 12-05-2012
PCM$: 0.00
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Lets all discuss a race the Stats man watched and knows very well. Lets all offer up our slightly differing opinions which are so wildly different that they must make a difference....
Seriously people! Alak's got this sh*t nailed down and 1-3CB differences are not going to change anything.
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| gotlandrules |
Posted on 13-04-2014 15:50
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1350
Joined: 07-05-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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TheManxMissile wrote:
Lets all discuss a race the Stats man watched and knows very well. Lets all offer up our slightly differing opinions which are so wildly different that they must make a difference....
Seriously people! Alak's got this sh*t nailed down and 1-3CB differences are not going to change anything.
This thread is made for discussing the stats, so whats the problem? Someone offered his opinion, some others disagree slightly and offer their opinions. |
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| depeche92 |
Posted on 13-04-2014 16:08
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Domestique
Posts: 451
Joined: 24-08-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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I still think Vanmarcke was stronger than Cancellara in the cobble sections in both Ronde and Paris-Roubaix, he should have the same stats of Cancellara:
Cancellara-Vanmarcke 81/82
Terpstra-Boonen 80
Sagan-Degenkolb etc.. 79 |
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| Alakagom |
Posted on 13-04-2014 16:20
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World Champion
Posts: 10452
Joined: 19-11-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Cancellara 81
Vanmarcke 81
Boonen 80
Terpstra 80
Van Avermaet 79
Degenkolb 78
Kristoff 78
Langeveld 78
Sagan 78
Stybar 78
Thomas 78
Vandenbergh 78
A quick look through. First thing, matrix may move up by one at later date. Some are 50/50. Langeveld is such rider, on edge of 77/78. Stybar could be on edge 78/79. Actually one or two from there could move up to 79.
Especially if we decide to move up the matrix by one.
But those are personal preferences I'd say so I not really up for discussion, can be easily changed, but one stat one way or another is not going make much difference.
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 13-04-2014 16:24
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 18071
Joined: 12-05-2012
PCM$: 0.00
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As usual i'll flag the issues with Kristoff/Degenkolb/Sagan of making them too high across the board in relation to development (all young with good potentials). But yeah those seem about right. Will be interested to see their FL ratings as well, with Sagan and Degenkolb being better on the flat than the cobbles while Boonen is better on the cobbles than the flat
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 13-04-2014 16:28
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15229
Joined: 08-08-2011
PCM$: 11500.00
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Please stop rating Sagan amongst the top cobblers, he loses every race on the cobbles. Today he attacked on normal roads, got reeled in on the cobbles. He lost Ronde 3x on the cobbles now, and E3 last year as well. He has a good flat, good hill, good endurance and has a sprint. That's why he gets good results in these races, not because of his cobble skills.
Anyway
Cancellara/Vanmarcke 82
Boonen 81
Terpstra 80
Degenkolb/Stybar/Van Avermaet 79
Kristoff/Vandenbergh/Sagan/Thomas/Langeveld/probably someone I forgot 78
De Backer & Wiggins both deserve a 75-76 
Edited by Ollfardh on 13-04-2014 16:29
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 13-04-2014 16:33
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 21381
Joined: 01-05-2012
PCM$: 400.00
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You just wait. Wiggins to be 83 cobbles in 2 years |
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| ikaros33 |
Posted on 13-04-2014 17:42
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Under 23
Posts: 70
Joined: 26-07-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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Alakagom wrote:Stybar could be on edge 78/79.
But shouldn't he actually get an even higher value, more than Terpstra, who was far worse than him in on the cobbles in last years Paris-Roubaix and then again this year, and only won because of the tactical situation after the last cobbled section (obviously you still need the legs for that, but thats more about stamina and especially flat [where he should really be among the top 5] than cobbles), the same way as last year, where he was also dropped and then came back on the tarmac to finish third? Stybar on the other hand was the only one capable of following Cancellara and Vanmarcke last year until he was stopped by a spectator and this year again he was easily able to follow them. He might not have the big results, because he got unlucky in Roubaix last year and everything came back together this year and he didn't get as many opportunities in other races as Terpstra, but on the cobbles of Roubaix he was one of the best for two years in a row with no one being able to drop him.
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| Alakagom |
Posted on 13-04-2014 17:45
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World Champion
Posts: 10452
Joined: 19-11-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Well results have to be taken into account, PCM AI doesn't have most amazing logic and Terpstra is unquestionably the rider of the spring. He won two classics and podiumed in others. Tersptra beat Stybar in all the cobbled classics this spring and Stybar only had one good result.
No matter what he should be one of the strongest and definitely third after Cance and Vanmarcke, any other way and he will never get such results in PCM.
While your point makes some sense, there is a line between PCM stats and real life.
Edited by Alakagom on 13-04-2014 17:50
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