Amazing how you keep failing at the Ardennes. Are you sure your riders are in the right condition for these races and have they done enough preparation races? Timing your energy gel well seems important in these races too, so you have that extra punch on the final climb.
Let me tell you how I do it, it might help: with Astana, I don't let Gasparotto and Iglinskiy ride any Grand Tours, so they can do lots of racing in spring. I usually let them start in Tour Down Under (useless for Ardennes, but good for points), then send Iglinskiy to Oman, Omloop, Kuurne and Paris-Nice, while Gasparotto does Algarve, Almeria, Strade Bianche and Tirreno-Adriatico. After that, they will both ride Milano-Sanremo, Catalunya, GP Miguel Indurain, Pais Vasco, Klasika Primavera and Brabantse Pijl before getting to their main season goals. Fitnesswise, I get them in the light green throughout april.
When the classics start, I protect both leaders and leave most of the work to other teams, while keeping them at the front of the peloton. When the action starts, I don't respond to outsiders attacking, as they will usually get reeled in by the teams of the top favourites (mostly Movistar, BMC & Katusha). I just keep my guys at front and only let one of them counter on attacks of guys like Valverde, Gilbert and Rodriguez. He won't work with them, because I have my second guy in the peloton. If they stay away, I use my energy gel about 4 km before the finish and usually get a podium spot like this, sometimes even a win. If they don't stay away, there are two options: if the general pace drops, I let my second guy attack (once Iglinskiy made a 15 km solo to the win in Liege like this), but if things keep up on a high pace, I position him as good as possible and go for the uphill sprint with the energy gel used at 4 km once again. So it's all about saving energy, confidence in your sprint and using your punch at the right moment.
In the meanwhile, I progressed one entire stage and Moreno got a stage win in Catalunya. Still didn't manage to force any gaps though, so he's sitting in 15th place with hardly any chance to move up anymore. Guess I'll just focus on defending the points jersey now.
So, after having to give up a few careers i started, is started up one a few days ago that i want to Keep going for a few years.
Team Sponsor is Guinness, and it took the place of Team Sky in the World Tour. Leaders are Dan Martin for the Ardennes, Nicolas Roche, Andrew Talansky and Nairo Quintana for the Stage Races and Lars Boom for the Classics. Dans key helpers are Wout Poels and Jan Bakelants, for the GC Contenders we have Fabio Aru, J.D. Atapuma, Mikel Landa and Phillip Deignan and in the classics squad are Gerraint Thomas, Taylor Phinney, Bernhard Eisel, Ian Stannard, Gustav Larsson, Stuart O'Grady, Gediminas Bagdonas and, because Gerraint will be injured for all the classics, Phillip Lavery. As sprinter we only have Theo Bos, and i expect nothing from him. I also have Jungels, O'Loughlin, O'Brian and Fairly as bottle carriers, really. Most important goals for this season, as given by Sponsors, are winning paris-nice, finishing top 3 at both MSR and L-B-L, and finishing top 3 at the Giro and the Vuelta and top 5 at the tour. Plan is to let Roche lead at the Giro, Talansky at the Tour (the GT i care least about ATM) and Quintana at the Vuelta. Dan Martin will target classics and smaller stage races. The Long-term plan though is to do These things:
-win a Monument with an Irish Rider
-win a GT with an Irish Rider
-win the Individual Rankings with an Irish Rider
-win the Worlds with a columbian Rider
I'm currently at the 18th of March, and this has happened so far:
In our very first pro race, O'Grady narrowly missed the Aussie NC title. After that, we stayed in Australia for the STDU. Dan Martin absolutely dominatet, winnig stages 1,2,3 and 5, and finishing 2nd on stage 6, which Gerraint won. After that i simmed through to P-N, nothing much Happening at Omloop and K-B-K. Paris-Nice was a disaster, with Talansky and Quintana massively losing time on the only stage i simmed. Talansky could still fight back to 8th, but Sponsors Goal missed by a landslide. Meanwhile, T-A was great, with Phinney, Martin and Roche taking a stage each and Martin the GC, which got us a minor Sponsor Goal. Then up came MSR, biggest race of the year so far. We decided to Keep out of the early breaks, and Things were boring untill about 25 km to go. I then attacked on the penultimate climd with boom, bridging over to the gap and forcing the favourites to act. Nothing Special though, but everything back together on the Poggio. Then Martin attacked solo, and that was that. The gap wasn't huge, but the peleton didn't sprint for Ages. So Longterm Goal number one achieved, alongside a big Sponsors Goal. This also makes Goal number three look more and more likely, if Dan can Keep up his Performances.
So yeah, thats my new career. I know it's OP and with too much Talent, but hey, somebody has to be when sky isn't there anymore.
Also, it might be worth mentioning i Play with the 2013 DB, with slight changes for Martin and Roche. So Quintana by far isn't strong enough to win a GT yet, same as Talansky. I slightly upped Roches MO and TT, so maybe he can do sommething at the Giro. Martins HI was upped to, he's one of the best now, as IRL.
Edit: Yay, my 300th Post isn't complete spam! Edited by Dippofix on 08-10-2013 18:11
Not on the PC atm, but his TT is about 74, hills about 72 and cobbles 68 i think. Those stats are outdated really, but he has got a quite high potential i thinkk, so he'll develop.
Blueprint wrote:
Amazing how you keep failing at the Ardennes.
I always complete the sponsor goals so "failing" is a bit far-stretched, I get your point though. However, of course it's still a long way to the top for Lampre-Merida. Besides, I have actually won Amstel and Liege already once with Volkswagen (I think I just made a post for Liege because I was kinda happy to have finally pulled it off) and most of my stage wins with Ulissi are on hilly stages (actually, I think all of them).
I use similiar tactics as you do. My 8 riders, who are aiming for the classics, are always in topshape. Protect my riders, hang onto the favourites, use the Gel so it kicks in when the attack starts at the last hill... I vary sometimes the tactics, like having a rider in the breakaway, since maybe he can support Ulissi later, or try to increase the pace and therefor drop many of the favourites (which doesn't always work but at least it will keep the race interesting). From building a "sprint train" for the last hill to double-attacks or just simply protected 90-dot riding, counter-attacks, waiting for the sprint... over the couple of seasons nothing did really work.
For me right now it's mostly just that one missing points in hill, one that can`t be obtained. Ulissi isn't the best rider by far and it think he lacks as much in hill as in acceleration and endurance (not knowing his exact stats right now). Don't forget that the competition doesn't sleep and riders like Henao, Nibali and Gilbert are around 82, others like Kern, Uran, Betancur 81 and even more 80ies like Kreuziger, Dan Martin or Sagan. So when you ride on Hard difficulty it's kind of a double disadvantage. Plus, the hill classics ain't like the cobble stone races where you can make up your riders deficit by simply riding smart and staying in front. It all concentrates on the last hill, and it seems Ulissi is just missing this lucky punch ability. I remember when Henao once accelarted at Huy, I think, and Ulissi was right behind him but hell - he couldn't keep up with him and got a top 10 result instead of a podium.
I think Ulissi started at 76-77 and has reached his potential by now in terms of hill. Right now, all I can do is to increase his sprint value as fast as possible. So I can imagine that your Astana combo, which you didn't play as many seasons as I do (at least I think you said something in this direction once ), is better at the start and thus can better compete when many, especially young, riders havn't reached their full puncheur potential yet.
However, simply saying that Ulissi lacks in stats is a bit of a sorry excuse, I know that. Fact is, right now my team isn't excatly prepared for the Ardennes classics. Caroli and Chessa have a potenial of over 80, so they should be ready to go in 1-2 seasons. Unfortunately Poels didn't resign, Cunego's Age of Decline kicked in and I am already eyeing another italian youngster rather than hire a full-grown puncheur to support Ulissi or even go for the win. So, to sum it up, I think it was this season more of a squad's problem, while the seasons before I think Ulissi just definitely was missing a bit of luck and skill.
@Dippofix: Yes, a rather strong squad but I suppose since Sky is no more it's only fitting. Where did you put Froome, Wiggins and Porte? 4 bottle carriers is a bit... less. I alredy fell like I have too less with 10 by squad-size of 25-27.
About my Lampre career: Tour de France is in full swing. Ulissi got his, by now probably obligatory, stage win. GC-wise it's rather dull. Aru and Ulissi both in Top 20. Aru was in a fantastic breakaway and so close to the win but Froome and Henao caught him like on the last meters ffs. Anacona got injured at the Crit-Dauph and will ride now the Vuelta in a supporting role. He is by far my best climber right now so with his injury there wasn't much hope for the GC anyway. And here I was hoping for a Top 5 ranking. More to come once I finish the Tour
On brighter news: Caroli won the stage up to the Kitzbühler Horn (yeah, in my lovely tyrol - his first victory excluding the team time trials). He went on to ride the Tour de Pologne as a built-up for the Vuelta. Again, he won the mountain stage and GC-wise he was 2nd place with... 0", yes, zerooo seconds. -.- I tried my best at the hill stage the day afterwards to get somehow bonus seconds, maybe even get some time between him and Drevenyns but alas, he stayed at this 2nd place with the exact same time... Here I thought that Pozzo's Giro defeat (3rd, 6 seconds behind 2nd place) and Poels Vuelta defeat (4th, 4 seconds behind 3rd) sucked but this is just the most redonkulous thing.
Edited by Shonak on 08-10-2013 23:32
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
Acceleration is definitely important, in my experience. And Ulissi should have that stat pretty high, as he's quite an explosive rider. But maybe I will run into the same problems if I manage to play my Katusha career for a couple of seasons. Moreno (up to 9th place in Catalunya after a lot of hard work!) will definitely not improve anymore and I will only hire another Ardennes specialist when his contract runs out in 2015.
Well, wuth bottle carriers i mean riders with nothing to do except for working at the front and protecting my leaader and that sort of stuff and that have, more importantly, no talent. (Well, except for Jungels). And also if they're not with a certain squad all the time. Riders like O'Grady, Bagdonas or Lavery would do that at the classics and Landa, Atapuma and untill he imroves also Aru at the stage races. So it's not really like i only had leaders or something.
Edit: This is really nothing else than a Revival of my very first PCM Career. Mainly the same riders (Some have retired, some are out of the game) so i took that save, sorted it by strongest rider on avg and added him to sky and then added the strongest sky rider to his former Team and so on. But since Martin and Talansky were the strongest of my riders (i played it for about ~2 ingame years) both Wiggins and Froome went to Garmin. I think Porte is either at Movistar or at Saxo-Tinkoff, Uran is definately at Saxo-Tinkoff and Henao is at Belkin.
Edited by Dippofix on 09-10-2013 16:45
Just had the weirdest Ronde van Vlaanderen ever! About 100 km from the finish, a large group of outsiders broke away and the teams of the top favourites started chasing too late, while Katusha didn't have the power to do much about it. In the end, this was the result:
Looks to me like Gilbert took the 3rd step on winning all 5 monuments. Good race by Paolini though, since he held up with Cancellara and Boonen a Top 10 result should have been normarly totally in range.
Which Ardennes specialist are you eyeing for 2015? Someone high profile, young riders like Moser or Kern or do you hope for a russian puncheur hero? From my experience in the game, when you play over several seasons, it's pretty cool to scout young talents and then turn them into (super-)stars. Plus, as you said, Russia's cycling scene needs a huge push in terms of quality.
In my career, Ulissi has by the way 76 (right now) in Acc. Pretty sure it didn't increase so much since the start of the career but it was definitely lower. I think Henao is around 80, other riders are higher too, so Acc. is a slight problem too at these last kilometers at any ardennes classic I suppose.
By the way: Edited in Lachis Editor that Cancellara is no longer retired. If no team signs him by the end of october I might give it a shot, since I'd really like for Spartacus to stick around the cycling scene for at least 2-3 seasons.
Lampre increased their sponsorship up to 3 mio/year. And, very weird, I just noticed that Lampre actually wants me to have swiss riders in the team. All these previous seasons I havn't seen it (since you had to scroll down) and yes, I did "un-retire" Spartacus before I noticed it... o_O I just hope that, if I sign Spartacus, they don`t want me to win all cobblestone classics. Then again, I probably don't have to care about Ardennes classics any more, hmmm....
@Deppofix: Sounds to me like you actually made the ProTour Circuit already more competitive. I usually let Sky be Sky the 1st season since some top riders leave anyway but the field sounds rather good. But since Quintana's potential is definitely the highest though Froome should have maybe been placed at Movistar. Not sure Vaughters is too happy about Froome being in his team. Edited by Shonak on 10-10-2013 00:39
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
I remember a long time back there was a long thread just about Cobbled stategies, idk if it talked about what the strategy would be if you DON'T have Cancellara or Boonen.
Basically for whatever reason on some early cobbles (we'll use Paris Roubaix as an example) I dot like 30 for all my guys just so they don't waste energy, and sometimes it just splits, creating a gap with my riders and some minor contenders. All the big guns are way behind. In my first season I tried driving away, but at max I got a 4 min gap, and with 25 km to go it was all together, despite pacing at 80+ effort the whole time, in the end I cannot manage a top 5. I've also tried just waiting in the pack, but that doesn't work either...
I have:
Thomas, Terpstra (79 COB)
Oss (78 COB)
2 people at 76 COB
2 people at 75 COB
1 useless filler.
It would seem that I would at least be able to get a top 5, I'm playing on Hard...can anyone give some advice?
baseballlover312, 06-03-14 : "Nuke Moscow...Don't worry Russia, we've got plenty of love to go around your cities"
Sarah Palin, 08-03-14 (CPAC, on Russian aggression) : "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a nuke is a good guy with a nuke"
Big thanks to jdog for making this AMAZING userbar!
I normally come somewhere in the 4th-7th range (always sprinting for a podium place and normally coming last/second to last in the sprint) by following and less aggressive out of Cancellara/Boonen, always letting them pull each other back to the group and countering if they try to attack across the gap. It normally ends up with me unable to judge which one will be the winning attack by them and sprinting in a small group with the other one for 2nd to 5th or them letting an outsider take it and sprinting for a top 3 and ending somehwere in the 5th-8th range depending on the group size with me normally either last or second to last in the group.
I usually just sent them in the front, make them hold position. Bad cobblestone riders protect the 4 better ones as long as possible (even using Gel obviously) and then the other two protect the two best ones and then the 2nd best one protects the last one in the end.
You usually have to pay attention to the race. Always keep your riders up front. At least I'm never really sure if a gap will increase to be too hard to close so I just prefer to have my riders always in the first 2-3 rows, right after the guys who are pacing the race (Radioshack, Omega Pharma). "Take position" command is quite a big help in these races (I rarely ride simple Dot and usually always just say take position). Not sure if Dot-racing is so good at cobble stone since, I think, you waste energy each time you try to close a gap or just get into the wind for too long (not playing with dot though, so basically, no idea actually). I just have "maintain position" at 70 at the start and then turn it up to 80 and then 90, the tougher a race gets.
If Spartacus or Boonen decide to attack, then you obviously have to follow. I usually counter-attack with 1-2 riders if they have energy left. This way I can even sent my guy to some work or protect my leader. However if you counter-attack and can't hang on to them, it's still okay since you should have a lead to the other favourites and can simply ride your race.
Obviously it's important that your top-riders have 95+ fitness in my experience. Anything below and it already is too tough for any rider to keep up with Cancellara or Boonen.
Edited by Shonak on 10-10-2013 01:55
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
baseballlover312, 06-03-14 : "Nuke Moscow...Don't worry Russia, we've got plenty of love to go around your cities"
Sarah Palin, 08-03-14 (CPAC, on Russian aggression) : "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a nuke is a good guy with a nuke"
Big thanks to jdog for making this AMAZING userbar!
Shonak wrote:
Looks to me like Gilbert took the 3rd step on winning all 5 monuments. Good race by Paolini though, since he held up with Cancellara and Boonen a Top 10 result should have been normarly totally in range.
Which Ardennes specialist are you eyeing for 2015? Someone high profile, young riders like Moser or Kern or do you hope for a russian puncheur hero? From my experience in the game, when you play over several seasons, it's pretty cool to scout young talents and then turn them into (super-)stars. Plus, as you said, Russia's cycling scene needs a huge push in terms of quality.
Actually, Paolini has been chasing the Boonen/Cancellara group solo for 20 kilometers and only ended up in the same time, because they were slowing down for the sprint. But top-10 would definitely have been possible under normal circumstances.
I don't know yet which Ardennes specialist I will target. I'm considering hiring Kiserlovski this year if he doesn't extend with RadioShack, so he can be Moreno's wingman for 2014, co-leader in 2015 and take over leadership in 2016. Francesco Bongiorno (Bardiani) or Jan Polanc (free rider) are other options for this scenario, but they still need quite some improvement. Or maybe I should just hire Ulissi next year. Of course, Russian talent would be preferred, but Chernetskiy will mainly be aiming at stage races and I haven't managed to scout anything interesting yet.
Edited by Blueprint on 10-10-2013 12:57
Does anyone have an idea of how often a rider "Future Great" pops up, given a scout with 10/10 on everything.
baseballlover312, 06-03-14 : "Nuke Moscow...Don't worry Russia, we've got plenty of love to go around your cities"
Sarah Palin, 08-03-14 (CPAC, on Russian aggression) : "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a nuke is a good guy with a nuke"
Big thanks to jdog for making this AMAZING userbar!
I don't think it works that way. Talents are, as far as I know, created at the start of the season randomly. You sent your scout then into regions and if you're lucky they find someone special before you move him to a new area. U23 ranking can be a indicator of a rider's skills & potential (just sort the list after the nationality you are looking for) but not a guarantee. You can also check the results of the U23 races and try to use them as a indicator like "Was the guy just lucky" or is he really good? Also the raw outlook on potential (like "interesting", "excellent future" ) is not always really correct since, I think, it just focuses on the potential but what's that worth when a rider only starts with 50iesh stats at age 23 in the pro circuit and ultimately will only be a okay domestique at best?
From my experience, when a climber has 68, 69 or 70 you can sign him if his other stats are decent enough. No need in having a sprinter with 80 sprint who lacks severely in acceleration for example (e.g. below 55). The same is for other specialisations of course.
So far, at my current career, this method and indicators works pretty good: Caroli is already becoming one of the best climbers (I think I scouted him at 69 Mountain - his Hill potential is around 80 but he had around 63 back then), Chessa (scouted with 74! hill) has huge potential and a cobblestone rider with 69 in CB and FL (Age 21 back then) still has a long way to go but he's getting there. The fourth guy (Piccolo) could turn into a decent domestique so he's worth to keep around. So in this case, I guess I had two seasons just the right nose because the last two seasons I didn't have any luck with the talents at all. So in the end, you just have to pay attention to any rider who may seem interesting, sent your scouts in different regions, have your scouts take a look at them und need some luck.
As for legendary scouts: I noticed that they mostly just scout faster than "normal" ones. Also their prediction of potential might be more accurate but I really can't say for sure (someone posted a theory like that somewhere, I think in the talent thread).
At my old Saxo Bank/Volkswagen career I signed lots of german youngsters in hope to find a new superstar for the new sponsor but most of them wern't worth the hassle and I fired them after I saw their potential. This is obviously quite a expensive tactic. To minimize such risk, but still playing the game itself, you can check the potential of any talent you have scouted in Lachis Editor if you like it to play it safe and want to avoid to flood your team with bad talent for 3 years.
I can recommend you Blueprints youngrider XML files. He posted a link several days/weeks ago. They are much better than the game's default stuff.
Blueprint wrote:
Or maybe I should just hire Ulissi next year.
Despite my constant complaining, I can only recommend you Ulissi. He's great at Grand Tours when you can use him for stage wins, especially the hilly stages. He's the king in any breakaway since he's mostly not good enough to be a favourite (at least at the TdF), so other riders work with him in the breakaway, but better than most others and his sprint after long hilly stages is pretty okay too.
Edited by Shonak on 11-10-2013 03:26
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
I have a question. In my career in my self made team I have Pinot (MO 78, HI 76). Shall I go with him for a good GC or with a breakaway's in mountain stages, in the Tour de France?
Edited by nielsboy1998 on 11-10-2013 07:22
nielsboy1998 wrote:
I have a question. In my career in my self made team I have Pinot (MO 78, HI 76). Shall I go with him for a good GC or with a breakaway's in mountain stages, in the Tour de France?
Depends on your sponsor goals. Personally, I'd go for the polkadot jersey and stage wins, because it's more fun.
Blueprint wrote:
Or maybe I should just hire Ulissi next year.
Despite my constant complaining, I can only recommend you Ulissi. He's great at Grand Tours when you can use him for stage wins, especially the hilly stages. He's the king in any breakaway since he's mostly not good enough to be a favourite (at least at the TdF), so other riders work with him in the breakaway, but better than most others and his sprint after long hilly stages is pretty okay too.
Normally, I don't send my Ardennes riders to the Tour at all. I have a rigid, almost formulaic season planning that I want to change as little as possible. From my Ardennes team, two riders won't do a GT, five ride the Vuelta and one will go for the Giro. Optimized it so much that all my riders have 62-69 race days (national and world championships not included) and I pretty much have entire teams of riders in good shape for any WT race, from Down Under to Beijing. On top of that, every rider in the team will be in good shape for the Worlds. They're also easy to group in Lachis Planner this way
.
. In my DB I have him as a TT'er of around the 76 and in cobbles 72.
GC-wise it's rather dull. Aru and Ulissi both in Top 20. Aru was in a fantastic breakaway and so close to the win but Froome and Henao caught him like on the last meters ffs. Anacona got injured at the Crit-Dauph and will ride now the Vuelta in a supporting role. He is by far my best climber right now so with his injury there wasn't much hope for the GC anyway. And here I was hoping for a Top 5 ranking. 
