TheManxMissile wrote:
But the problem here being that U18's do not have a vote. So how do their voices get heard? Protest in this instance being a perfectly viable option.
Nobody cares what someone without right to vote thinks about elections...deal with it.
There is a reason you can vote only when being an adult, main reason is that ideals stand in front of actually using your brain.
I mean, it's not like that when you turn 18 you start to actually use your brain. I'd much rather have 14 year olds proven to be educated voting, rather than 50 year olds brainwashed by Facebook who don't know exactly how their country works and what they are voting for.
Which is also why I'm sometimes very much against universal suffrage and I'd love to at least have some sort of test to validate your vote, but that's another story
But that's how totalitarian states start. Stop certain demography's voting to control the election results. We've had this conversation before. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and everyone is entitled to their vote. Even if you don't agree with it.
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
ringo182 wrote:
But that's how totalitarian states start. Stop certain demography's voting to control the election results. We've had this conversation before. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and everyone is entitled to their vote. Even if you don't agree with it.
But what if you don't get a vote? I remember when i was 16 and the UK had a general election. I was not entitled to a vote, yet a significant number of policies and manifesto points were aimed at Education and the Youth. The elected Government would dictate a large part of my immediate future as i started looking at Universities, but i could not contribute to the discussion because i was 16.
So what happened was that fees got hiked and i got lumbered with a competely idiotic loan system. And various other supports for young people were cut as well.
But as i was not able to vote, my opinion does not matter?
I'm not saying everone should get a vote, because that is a bad idea. But saying "you didn't vote, so you should shut up and/or deal with it" is grossly unfair. Because some people excluded from the vote are perfectly capable of forming a thought out opinion, whilst there are many who can vote that do not try and make their own opinion and just follow a crowd/movement/trend/whatever. And that is more harmful than a protest in the long term.
So when the goverment is making decisions about nursery schools, they should ask toddlers about it?
The 18 years is the boundary in majority of the world that is agreed by experts not only for elections, but for granting the full civil rights, one of these is the right to vote. We can have a discussion about that boundary, but i am even more inclined to raise it, not lower it. 16 year old teenager is not responsible for him/her self and they should be responsible for decision about whole population? You are not even done with your physical and mental growth by that time and you are (in much larger scale than adults) driven by emotions, sexuality, ideals,...reason is not the important thing for a teenager, no matter how reasonable and educated he tries to look. Tobe honest, you know shit about life when you are 16,18 or 20, with eceptions ofc.
Ofc there are also adults driven by emotions or various propagandas, but you can hardly scratch them from voting right.
Look at yourself Manx, you are not able to exist on the internet without postering it with girls all the time. I dont believe you, that you are not driven by your pants more than anything else.
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Look at yourself Manx, you are not able to exist on the internet without postering it with girls all the time. I dont believe you, that you are not driven by your pants more than anything else.
ringo182 wrote:
But that's how totalitarian states start. Stop certain demography's voting to control the election results. We've had this conversation before. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and everyone is entitled to their vote. Even if you don't agree with it.
But what if you don't get a vote? I remember when i was 16 and the UK had a general election. I was not entitled to a vote, yet a significant number of policies and manifesto points were aimed at Education and the Youth. The elected Government would dictate a large part of my immediate future as i started looking at Universities, but i could not contribute to the discussion because i was 16.
So what happened was that fees got hiked and i got lumbered with a competely idiotic loan system. And various other supports for young people were cut as well.
But as i was not able to vote, my opinion does not matter?
I'm not saying everone should get a vote, because that is a bad idea. But saying "you didn't vote, so you should shut up and/or deal with it" is grossly unfair. Because some people excluded from the vote are perfectly capable of forming a thought out opinion, whilst there are many who can vote that do not try and make their own opinion and just follow a crowd/movement/trend/whatever. And that is more harmful than a protest in the long term.
Yes but, as I said previously, there has to be a cut off somewhere. No system is ever going to be 100% fair to everyone. You lower the age to 16 and 15 year olds will be disadvantaged.
As I said, some 16 year olds are capable of voting, some 30 year olds are not. That's just the way of the World.
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
ringo182 wrote:
But that's how totalitarian states start. Stop certain demography's voting to control the election results. We've had this conversation before. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and everyone is entitled to their vote. Even if you don't agree with it.
But saying "you didn't vote, so you should shut up and/or deal with it" is grossly unfair. .
Well, this quote is mostly only going against people who could've voted, but refused to do so.
Btw. at this point, i am inclined not to go and vote next year in czech pairlamentary elections, for the first time in my life as a voter. But that does not mean i dont have anything to say about future of our state or about things, rather that i dont see any valid party i would like to vote for....really i see czech political scene being in such a limbo, that i cant choose any of them.
So i agree with this opinion that some people adressed here, that you can protest also this way.
- We have xenophobic right wingers.
- We have lefties, that pretend that social state is their main goal, but they just continue with their usual socialist stuff and control of peoples lives.
-We have commies, who should burn in eternal flames.
- We have middle of the spectrum parties, that pretend to be middle/right, but in fact they are socialists in disguise. One of the, govenered by minister of finances, who is also the 2nd in biggest wealth in Czech Republic and controls lot of media (yeah, crazy stuff, but he buys votes by populist reforms and promises, so nobody really cares).
We have right wingers, who i have voted in my early voter years, but year by year they destroyed their reliability and respectability with scandals and connections to criminals.
- We have the "liberal conservative party" who i have voted for last few elections, but those are often too theathrical in their "pro Israeli" and pro-EU" statements.
So....i really dont have anybody to vote for, i will maybe go with some obscure small party, like monarchists.
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Btw. at this point, i am inclined not to go and vote next year in czech pairlamentary elections, for the first time in my life as a voter. But that does not mean i dont have anything to say about future of our state or about things, rather that i dont see any valid party i would like to vote for....really i see czech political scene being in such a limbo, that i cant choose any of them.
So i agree with this opinion that some people adressed here, that you can protest also this way.
- We have xenophobic right wingers.
- We have lefties, that pretend that social state is their main goal, but they just continue with their usual socialist stuff and control of peoples lives.
-We have commies, who should burn in eternal flames.
- We have middle of the spectrum parties, that pretend to be middle/right, but in fact they are socialists in disguise. One of the, govenered by minister of finances, who is also the 2nd in biggest wealth in Czech Republic and controls lot of media (yeah, crazy stuff, but he buys votes by populist reforms and promises, so nobody really cares).
We have right wingers, who i have voted in my early voter years, but year by year they destroyed their reliability and respectability with scandals and connections to criminals.
- We have the "liberal conservative party" who i have voted for last few elections, but those are often too theathrical in their "pro Israeli" and pro-EU" statements.
So....i really dont have anybody to vote for, i will maybe go with some obscure small party, like monarchists.
If you protest after that, because the reigning party does shit, it's ok, but if you protest afterwards, because you would like to see another party in charge, your opinion can't be taken serious, because you could've voted for a different party.
ringo182 wrote:
Start your own Party Avin. Power to the People!!!!
What would the point of that party be? Peter Sagan is Slovakian. He can't be elected as Czech president.
I would like to earn millions of euros by doing what i like, but sadly i am not Sagan.
But i have dual nationality, so technically i could be president of both countries if being old enough. I would not be a good politician though, i would try to offend everybody and everywhere.
Trump is finally Elected President, the russian Ambassador in Turkey was shot in camera, whilst the murder screamed "allahu Akbar" and in Berlin a Truck crashes into a Market and Kills 9 People whilst hurting 50+ people. Currently they think He is a Pakistani, but that's not clarified yet. I bet Merkel will calm everything down, Dresden will have a chain of people Demonstrating against right-wingers and then we carry in like nothing happened. Had nothing to do with Islam at all.
Trump is finally Elected President, the russian Ambassador in Turkey was shot in camera, whilst the murder screamed "allahu Akbar" and in Berlin a Truck crashes into a Market and Kills 9 People whilst hurting 50+ people. Currently they think He is a Pakistani, but that's not clarified yet. I bet Merkel will calm everything down, Dresden will have a chain of people Demonstrating against right-wingers and then we carry in like nothing happened. Had nothing to do with Islam at all.
didn't he scream "This is for Aleppo" - at least that is what I heard...
Trump is finally Elected President, the russian Ambassador in Turkey was shot in camera, whilst the murder screamed "allahu Akbar" and in Berlin a Truck crashes into a Market and Kills 9 People whilst hurting 50+ people. Currently they think He is a Pakistani, but that's not clarified yet. I bet Merkel will calm everything down, Dresden will have a chain of people Demonstrating against right-wingers and then we carry in like nothing happened. Had nothing to do with Islam at all.
Merkel should calm everyone down, or would you prefer total panic and muslim lynching? Actually, don't answer that one.
Turkey is getting more and more of a mess each day. I wouldn't be entirely opposed to a russian invasion at this point.
Anyone taking bets if Trump is going to last the full 4 years?
