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General Career Discussion
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| Shonak |
Posted on 19-08-2013 15:16
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15579
Joined: 16-07-2013
PCM$: 350.00
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Jesleyh wrote:
Shonak wrote:
Jesleyh wrote:
Maybe it's good to rename this General Career Discussion 2012, I always mix up both 
But then I'd have no place to share my misadventures in PCM2012.  
The other one is called General Career Discussion 2013, so for PCM 2013. This one would be 2012 then
I'm sorry, I just saw that I misspelled my description in a previous post. I don't play PCM 2013 but PCM2012 with the PCMDaily 2013 All in One DB. So, now I got it right.
Mighty squad you got there, eple. What's up with Wouter Jaspers though?
I hate it when such transfers happen like T.J. I really wished that the manager and rider A.I. in career mode itself would be better. Top-class riders on their peak sign with continental teams and never ride a big race anymore (Kreuziger, presumably Quintana in my career, some others too), teams select their riders wrong and so forth. Fall season is always a bit troublesome as except for EBH and some Vacansoleil riders hardly anybody takes these races seriously it seems to me.
Also, in the UCI Team.Ranking you just get a tremendous lead and there is no real competition, while it is mostly quite close until July. Is there a way to change that while not necessarily putting race difficulty up to "extreme"? I might even start a career just have a more satisfying competition in the UCI and career mode itself.
Most annoying thing by the way: Valverde is right now 37 or something like that and switches each year between Movistar and different team.... this goes on for 4-5 seasons now. It's not even funny anymore.
Edited by Shonak on 19-08-2013 15:18
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| eple |
Posted on 19-08-2013 16:53
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Stagiare
Posts: 173
Joined: 17-08-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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The UCI team ranking total is made up of the score of your best 5 riders, so I guess if you want to make it more competitive you could spread the leading roles between more riders, so that your best ones doesn't get all the points. I know what you are saying though. AI squad management and planning could be a whole lot better.
Jaspers is better then he looks!  It's the TT-specialist AVR-Syndrome 
And he is also very talented, but has developed a bit slowly.
Edited by eple on 19-08-2013 16:54
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| Shonak |
Posted on 19-08-2013 23:05
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15579
Joined: 16-07-2013
PCM$: 350.00
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No wonder he develops slowly when you don't even assign a coach.
Actually, the Fall classics ain't that bad I figured out now. Just played the UCI (as Germany) and I noticed how strong Breschel actually became. He was basically all-attacking and still managed to get 2nd place in the final sprint. So, based on this, EBH and Breschel just really like the classics from San Sebastian to Montreal & Quebec and I understand that; they are awesome races. AI Management could be of course still a lot better...
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| eple |
Posted on 20-08-2013 00:31
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Stagiare
Posts: 173
Joined: 17-08-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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Give me a break... it's the 1st day of the season!
Spoiler I forgot to renew the coaches contracts  |
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| Blueprint |
Posted on 20-08-2013 07:54
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Domestique
Posts: 437
Joined: 29-03-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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eple wrote:
Yes, this will be my first season with a big sponsor. Budget is now €500k pr month. I tried getting in Tejay van Garderen, but he wouldn't even accept 90k pr month! (Edit: I just checked and he ended up signing for a Continental team called 'Miche' for 96k pr month.. what the hell!!)
Your team is already ridiculously strong and talented, why would you need Van Garderen too? |
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| eple |
Posted on 20-08-2013 10:49
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Stagiare
Posts: 173
Joined: 17-08-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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Because I got an American sponsor, but only 3 American riders. My team is strong overall, but I don't have a standout leader. The database I'm using coupled with 1.0 evolution means that there are a lot of 80+ riders. The sponsor is expecting me to win just about everything, but I don't really have a strong leader to compete with the likes Froome, Nibali (85mo!!!), Gesink, Schleck. Van Garderen always does well in TdF because of his excellent TT rating and the variants I've got usually has one or two 40km++ flat TT. |
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| Blueprint |
Posted on 20-08-2013 10:57
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Domestique
Posts: 437
Joined: 29-03-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Ah, I see. I made my database so that no rider has more than 82 on main stats, 76 on resistance and 80 on other side stats, so from that perspective, your team looked amazingly strong. And I use 0.3 for development, still getting Aru up to 80 MO within a year, so he might be able to win the Giro for my Astana team in 2014 already...
Edited by Blueprint on 20-08-2013 10:58
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| eple |
Posted on 20-08-2013 12:36
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Stagiare
Posts: 173
Joined: 17-08-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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I can see why you are asking with that perspective. Out of curiosity, why do you limit the stats? What effect does it have on the mountain stages?
Aru's has been developing slowly. Maybe around 1 point in MO pr season. I don't know if it's the xml-files or what, but even at 1.0 evo most riders take a long time to develop. There's the odd rider that reaches their potential at around 25-26, but most do it around 30. Aru's limit in MO is 83-84, I think. He's also got a limit around 76-77 in sprint. With the exception of TT he is gonna be amazing in a season or two, but by then he is already 30 years old. |
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| Blueprint |
Posted on 20-08-2013 12:55
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Domestique
Posts: 437
Joined: 29-03-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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eple wrote:
I can see why you are asking with that perspective. Out of curiosity, why do you limit the stats? What effect does it have on the mountain stages?
Aru's has been developing slowly. Maybe around 1 point in MO pr season. I don't know if it's the xml-files or what, but even at 1.0 evo most riders take a long time to develop. There's the odd rider that reaches their potential at around 25-26, but most do it around 30. Aru's limit in MO is 83-84, I think. He's also got a limit around 76-77 in sprint. With the exception of TT he is gonna be amazing in a season or two, but by then he is already 30 years old.
I guess I was just really lucky with Aru, because for example Kangert and Guardini hardly made any progress in their first year. Assigning a really good trainer and giving him no more than 8 riders to train helps a lot though.
For limiting, I have several reasons:
1. It's in accordance with rider stats at the start of a career, so there will be no inflation and older riders won't be overtaken by young monsters too fast.
2. I've created xml files for young rider generation in accordance to PCM.Daily stats, so I needed to cap existing riders at the same levels to not make their level unreachable for generated riders.
3. PCM has the tendency of setting crazy limits for rider stats, like in your example of Aru's sprint potential.
4. If you let PCM have its natural way, resistance gets up too high and that messes up mountain stages. Group sprints of 30 riders at Alpe d'Huez are just not cool.
It's a lot of work though, as I needed to set limits for every stat of every rider with potential 5 or higher (existing riders ignore the youngrider xml files, which totally sucks). The downside is that rider development gets a bit predictable, but I prefer it over Cyanide's nonsense. Good thing is that it was so much work that I don't remember exactly how high I set the limits for each rider
Edited by Blueprint on 20-08-2013 12:56
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| eple |
Posted on 20-08-2013 15:53
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Stagiare
Posts: 173
Joined: 17-08-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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Interesting. I guess if the gap between the best climbers and the not so good climbers is small, resistance will come more into play in the mountain stages? I don't think I have seen many sprints at the mountain stages with more than just a few riders.
I do like the crazy 85 stat riders, but the balance between the starting PCMdaily-DB and the regenerated riders does seem a bit off. I.e. there are no Froome/Contador/Wiggins-types, and most sprinters seem to lack in either Hill/Sta/Res. There are no Sagan/B.Hagen-types either.
Just finished Tour Down Under. There was very little competition, but somehow I manged to lose the leader jersey.
Goss won 4 stages and Nerz took 3 podium places. With the 10 sec bonus for stage win, Goss had an excellent chance at winning, but in the single hilly finish, Meyer attacked. Everyone came in together, but there must have been some tiny gap I didn't spot cos Nerz lost 9" and Goss lost 35", which resulted in Goss finishing 3" behind and Nerz in 3rd 10" behind.  |
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| Blueprint |
Posted on 22-08-2013 09:48
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Domestique
Posts: 437
Joined: 29-03-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Jesleyh wrote:
Yeah, you've probably been unlucky. On 0,5/0,6, I saw a few guys going up 5/6 stat points in a season. You have to be lucky, the random table thing goes from 1 to 5, and 5 is really like 10 times faster than 1(not exactly know how much).
0,5 is clearly enough(did 0,7 once, and that was surely too much for me)
At my careers, coeff_f_carac_evolution is 0 as well, so it's not a bug. Not sure why it is like that, though
Is that random thing called gene_i_year_progression? It's 5 for Aru in my Astana career, which lead to the following ridiculous increase in one year (with a really good trainer and 0.3 evolution):
FL 67 > 70
MO 75 > 81
HIL 73 > 78
TT 70 > 73
PRL 67 > 72
COB 53 > 54
SPR 62 > 63
ACC 70 > 72
END 72 > 76
RES 70 > 74
REC 71 > 79
Bit extreme, if you ask me. Needless to say that Aru is almost done progressing at the age of 23, but we will happily win the Giro with him for the next 10 years... |
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| Jesleyh |
Posted on 22-08-2013 09:54
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World Champion
Posts: 14744
Joined: 21-07-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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Blueprint wrote:
Jesleyh wrote:
Yeah, you've probably been unlucky. On 0,5/0,6, I saw a few guys going up 5/6 stat points in a season. You have to be lucky, the random table thing goes from 1 to 5, and 5 is really like 10 times faster than 1(not exactly know how much).
0,5 is clearly enough(did 0,7 once, and that was surely too much for me)
At my careers, coeff_f_carac_evolution is 0 as well, so it's not a bug. Not sure why it is like that, though
Is that random thing called gene_i_year_progression? It's 5 for Aru in my Astana career, which lead to the following ridiculous increase in one year (with a really good trainer and 0.3 evolution):
FL 67 > 70
MO 75 > 81
HIL 73 > 78
TT 70 > 73
PRL 67 > 72
COB 53 > 54
SPR 62 > 63
ACC 70 > 72
END 72 > 76
RES 70 > 74
REC 71 > 79
Bit extreme, if you ask me. Needless to say that Aru is almost done progressing at the age of 23, but we will happily win the Giro with him for the next 10 years...
Yes it is.
It's a bit extreme indeed, bet he has a great trainer as well?
But yeah, I believe someone on this forum(Kentaurus?) explained how to change the effects, so that 5 & 1 are less extremes.
Feyenoord(football) and Kelderman fanboy
PCMdaily Awards: 12x nomination, 9x runner-up, 0x win.
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| Blueprint |
Posted on 22-08-2013 09:57
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Domestique
Posts: 437
Joined: 29-03-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Actually, knowing PCM logic, it's more likely that Aru won't agree to extend his contract when it ends and will move to some small continental team, that will hardly use him for several years...
Anyway, the AI teams seem to be much more realistic with this stuff, so I guess I will save some money on trainers.
And I've found Kentaurus' post:
Kentaurus wrote:
I've mentioned this in another thread, I'll post it again (and hope that it gets changed in one of the updates) STA_cyclist_progression controls how much of a change gene_i_year_progression causes. In default a 1 in gene_i_year_progression = 20% (.2) of normal growth, and 5 = 300% (3).
I highly recommend changes the values in STA_cyclist_progression to match this:
1 - .5
2 - .75
3 - 1
4 - 1.33
5 - 2
this makes the gene_i_year_progression value a little less important while still giving some variation. No longer will riders have a completely stagnant year or have a season where they burst from bad to great.
Edited by Blueprint on 22-08-2013 10:13
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| Blueprint |
Posted on 22-08-2013 10:42
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Domestique
Posts: 437
Joined: 29-03-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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By the way, do changes in STA_cyclist_progression work in my save game or would I need to start a new career? |
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| Shonak |
Posted on 22-08-2013 11:37
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15579
Joined: 16-07-2013
PCM$: 350.00
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Blueprint wrote:
Actually, knowing PCM logic, it's more likely that Aru won't agree to extend his contract when it ends and will move to some small continental team, that will hardly use him for several years...
If you renew his contract one year before he leaves it works. Basically, contract ends 2015 and you already renew in 2014 for 2-3 years. Until now, it always worked for me (Breschel being my best example. He'd probably left by now),
Downside is you generally pay the top-riders and the talents you want to keep every year a bit more and you are less flexible when it comes to hiring new riders. However I suppose the long-term strategy makes up for it.
What's the standard coeff_f_carc_evolution set at the start of the career? 0.5 I believe? I hired a danish talent at the age of 18 and he is nearly maxed out by now (though he is no super rider, just decent stats mostly). However he has trained with a legendary coach and I suppose you can reach nearly your full potential after training 6 years with one of those.
Kentaurus wrote:
No longer will riders have a completely stagnant year or have a season where they burst from bad to great.
Looking at Froome, this is actually completely realistic. 
Edited by Shonak on 22-08-2013 11:39
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| Shonak |
Posted on 22-08-2013 20:23
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15579
Joined: 16-07-2013
PCM$: 350.00
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Scuzzi for double post, but... Vlaanderen treble with Breschel, whoopdidoo!
EDIT: Is there a way to edit the UCI Tour points for stage wins? Maybe then the discrepancy won`t be so high between my team and others and there will be a higher competition. I just think that stage wins give too less points compared to classics or GC rankings. Also, is there a chance to edit that the UCI World Champion won't be automatically third place at the "Cycling of the Year"-voting at the end of the season. It's basically just: First rank is the guy on top of UCI ranking, 2nd is the tour winner (or someone else if 1st at UCI & Tour winner is the same), and 3rd is the world champion. Not enough appreciation for other races it seems to me.
Edited by Shonak on 22-08-2013 22:32
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| Blueprint |
Posted on 23-08-2013 06:52
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Domestique
Posts: 437
Joined: 29-03-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Shonak wrote:
What's the standard coeff_f_carc_evolution set at the start of the career?
Default is 0.5, but 0.3 is recommended.
About the UCI points, I don't know. But I do know that it's completely in line with how it goes in the real world too. Cyclist of the year has given me some different results, so I guess it's just a coincidence in your career that it always turns out the same way. |
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| Shonak |
Posted on 23-08-2013 20:22
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15579
Joined: 16-07-2013
PCM$: 350.00
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Thanks mate. In case you edit carc_evolution will older riders decline slower?
Edited by Shonak on 23-08-2013 20:22
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| Jesleyh |
Posted on 23-08-2013 20:27
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World Champion
Posts: 14744
Joined: 21-07-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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Yes, I guess so.
Feyenoord(football) and Kelderman fanboy
PCMdaily Awards: 12x nomination, 9x runner-up, 0x win.
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| Blueprint |
Posted on 23-08-2013 22:40
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Domestique
Posts: 437
Joined: 29-03-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Kentaurus wrote:
I've mentioned this in another thread, I'll post it again (and hope that it gets changed in one of the updates) STA_cyclist_progression controls how much of a change gene_i_year_progression causes. In default a 1 in gene_i_year_progression = 20% (.2) of normal growth, and 5 = 300% (3).
I highly recommend changes the values in STA_cyclist_progression to match this:
1 - .5
2 - .75
3 - 1
4 - 1.33
5 - 2
this makes the gene_i_year_progression value a little less important while still giving some variation. No longer will riders have a completely stagnant year or have a season where they burst from bad to great.
Trying an extreme version of this now (0.50 - 0.75 - 1.00 - 1.25 - 1.50) with a Flaminia-Fondriest career, let's see how it goes. At least I'm very proud of my result in Trofeo Laigueglia, the first season target. Andrea Fedi was in the breakaway until 10 km before the finish. Then the favourites attacked and Mucelli joined to sprint to third place! This might end up being a lot of fun
| 1 | Moreno Moser | Cannondale Pro Cycling | 5h00'09 | | 2 | Heinrich Haussler | IAM Cycling | s.t. | | 3 | Davide Mucelli | Ceramica Flaminia - Fondriest | s.t. | | 4 | Fabian Wegmann | Garmin - Sharp | s.t. | | 5 | Nick Nuyens | Garmin - Sharp | s.t. | | 6 | Elia Favilli | Lampre - Merida | + 48 | | 7 | Jonathan Tiernan-Locke | Sky Procycling | s.t. | | 8 | Damiano Caruso | Cannondale Pro Cycling | s.t. | | 9 | Tom Boonen | Omega Pharma - Quick·Step Cycling Team | s.t. | | 10 | Giacomo Nizzolo | RadioShack - Leopard | s.t. |
edit: and even better, second in Strade Bianche!
| 1 | Rinaldo Nocentini | AG2R La Mondiale | 4h35'10 | | 2 | Davide Mucelli | Ceramica Flaminia - Fondriest | s.t. | | 3 | Fabio Felline | Androni Giocattoli - Venezuela | s.t. | | 4 | Andrey Amador | Movistar Team | s.t. | | 5 | Moreno Moser | Cannondale Pro Cycling | s.t. | | 6 | Elia Favilli | Lampre - Merida | s.t. | | 7 | Carlos Betancur | AG2R La Mondiale | s.t. | | 8 | Maciej Bodnar | Cannondale Pro Cycling | s.t. | | 9 | Manuele Mori | Lampre - Merida | s.t. | | 10 | José Serpa | Lampre - Merida | s.t. |
Edited by Blueprint on 23-08-2013 23:29
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