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PT Rankings Update
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 23-01-2015 13:50
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World Champion
Posts: 13662
Joined: 20-06-2011
PCM$: 300.00
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SportingNonsense wrote:
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Edit: Btw. my main plan was very similar to Alakagoms, as i will end the season with half of the team on something like 4.40 or 3.20 and PT promotion would be ideal. But i was not able to support these talents with so good leaders to push for promotion at all (actually relegation is closer). Now it will take hours and hours to think what to do now. Some of my best riders will have to go on loan, so next year will be all about avoiding relegation (if we will avoid it this year). 
Well if they are at 4.40 then all it takes is a GT wildcard + Avenir, or GT wildcard + enough HC race days (or other wildcards). There are only 6 GT wildcard spots available, but Jaguar have been able to ride a GT for the past two years after less than 6 teams applied.
They are actually even higher. One is 4.56 and other is 4.57. Thing is that iam scared to count GT wildcard as sure thing, because i took place in one this year and Vuelta just tends to clash with many races that suit Metinvest. So that leaves me with HC races (obviously 80 race days in HC in not possible) and other PT wildcards worth 1 point per rd.
I had not much time yet to calculate things and look into possibilities, but i will need a lot of time to think it all over ,as being rejected on wildcards or running out of cash during transfers, or making planning mistake could result in Grosu or Zmorka (or both), ending on 4.99 or something like that. I dont need to say that it would be major fuck up for a whole future of the team. So i need to plan carefuly. Nothing would make me more happy than actually developing these two in my colours for their whole career. 
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 23-01-2015 14:34
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Team Manager
Posts: 31706
Joined: 08-03-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
SportingNonsense wrote:
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Edit: Btw. my main plan was very similar to Alakagoms, as i will end the season with half of the team on something like 4.40 or 3.20 and PT promotion would be ideal. But i was not able to support these talents with so good leaders to push for promotion at all (actually relegation is closer). Now it will take hours and hours to think what to do now. Some of my best riders will have to go on loan, so next year will be all about avoiding relegation (if we will avoid it this year).
Well if they are at 4.40 then all it takes is a GT wildcard + Avenir, or GT wildcard + enough HC race days (or other wildcards). There are only 6 GT wildcard spots available, but Jaguar have been able to ride a GT for the past two years after less than 6 teams applied.
They are actually even higher. One is 4.56 and other is 4.57. Thing is that iam scared to count GT wildcard as sure thing, because i took place in one this year and Vuelta just tends to clash with many races that suit Metinvest. So that leaves me with HC races (obviously 80 race days in HC in not possible) and other PT wildcards worth 1 point per rd.
I had not much time yet to calculate things and look into possibilities, but i will need a lot of time to think it all over ,as being rejected on wildcards or running out of cash during transfers, or making planning mistake could result in Grosu or Zmorka (or both), ending on 4.99 or something like that. I dont need to say that it would be major fuck up for a whole future of the team. So i need to plan carefuly. Nothing would make me more happy than actually developing these two in my colours for their whole career.
It should be very easy then. They will both be in Avenir so that is 4.76 and 4.77. Then even a 7 stage PT race would be enough, since then you'd need less than 35 HC race days. If you were apply to all GTs and all longer stage races, it'd be pretty much impossible not to get one of them.
It's a good job you got all the XP from doing the Giro this year!
Edited by SportingNonsense on 23-01-2015 14:35
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| roturn |
Posted on 23-01-2015 14:35
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Team Manager
Posts: 22043
Joined: 24-11-2007
PCM$: 3900.00
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Sounds pretty good. 
I have all my riders on 4.70 and higher. So even if I go down, I don`t need to loan them to other teams. |
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 23-01-2015 15:17
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World Champion
Posts: 13662
Joined: 20-06-2011
PCM$: 300.00
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SportingNonsense wrote:
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
SportingNonsense wrote:
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Edit: Btw. my main plan was very similar to Alakagoms, as i will end the season with half of the team on something like 4.40 or 3.20 and PT promotion would be ideal. But i was not able to support these talents with so good leaders to push for promotion at all (actually relegation is closer). Now it will take hours and hours to think what to do now. Some of my best riders will have to go on loan, so next year will be all about avoiding relegation (if we will avoid it this year).
Well if they are at 4.40 then all it takes is a GT wildcard + Avenir, or GT wildcard + enough HC race days (or other wildcards). There are only 6 GT wildcard spots available, but Jaguar have been able to ride a GT for the past two years after less than 6 teams applied.
They are actually even higher. One is 4.56 and other is 4.57. Thing is that iam scared to count GT wildcard as sure thing, because i took place in one this year and Vuelta just tends to clash with many races that suit Metinvest. So that leaves me with HC races (obviously 80 race days in HC in not possible) and other PT wildcards worth 1 point per rd.
I had not much time yet to calculate things and look into possibilities, but i will need a lot of time to think it all over ,as being rejected on wildcards or running out of cash during transfers, or making planning mistake could result in Grosu or Zmorka (or both), ending on 4.99 or something like that. I dont need to say that it would be major fuck up for a whole future of the team. So i need to plan carefuly. Nothing would make me more happy than actually developing these two in my colours for their whole career.
It should be very easy then. They will both be in Avenir so that is 4.76 and 4.77. Then even a 7 stage PT race would be enough, since then you'd need less than 35 HC race days. If you were apply to all GTs and all longer stage races, it'd be pretty much impossible not to get one of them.
It's a good job you got all the XP from doing the Giro this year!
It really sounds pretty realistic, i will probably come to same conclusion after having some time to dig more into it, for now i was just speculating. I will need to count with those money for wildcards and these two should be fine. These are some great news for Metinvest (less good for PT managers looking to loan in useful talents).
This years Giro was really great to boost their experience, plus they both were also at Catalunya and Zmorka at Chrono Herbiers, which resulted in massive XP haul and that was the main goal. I love wildcard system.
Nice discussion today, i enjoy talking about man-game mechanics and scenarios as much as SotD. But it was not not much productive day at work.
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| Smowz |
Posted on 23-01-2015 16:45
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Team Leader
Posts: 6386
Joined: 09-04-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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For promoted teams to be successful in the ProTour I firmly believe they really do need a heavy hitter or two if they are going to be successful. They have that extra million in wage cap and were likely successful in goals in previous season so they have chances to get that X Factor rider. There are some good guys in teams that will disband (Santander for example) or relegate it's worth taking a punt on those sorts.
The 2013 successful promoted teams went with this as Red Bull had Cancellara, Pokerstars Boonan, Aker Hagen. They did have other guys chipping in but those three pretty much guarenteed points throughout the year. There are plenty of hilly races and Canc/Boonan are just double edge bastards who have plenty of chances to score in cobbles/sprints/TT.
This year it is Tinkoff who have done brilliantly and yes for all they careful training of guys like Kritskiy it is Trofimov who is the shining star without him they would be close to the relegation zone too.
I have respect for those who want to play the long game, though find it a little irratating to see teams who promote to the protour and promptly say screw it I am going to use my inflated wage to build a team for the future. I don't think sponsors would really have the patience for that, this is cycling after all and success is needed in the short term!
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| Heine |
Posted on 23-01-2015 18:34
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4470
Joined: 08-04-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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jph27 wrote:
If Cio doesn't return, the free agent market will be interesting to say the least. Just looking quickly at who could go for big wages off the top of my head:
Nerz
Bongiorno
Herklotz
Kelderman
Vogt
Sutterlin
Daniel
Ringheim
Ciolek
Demare
Lander
Felline
Bar
Should hopefully drive talent prices down overall 
One of the craziest squads of talents ever assambled, quite a few riders I might go for next season (A)
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| roturn |
Posted on 23-01-2015 18:37
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Team Manager
Posts: 22043
Joined: 24-11-2007
PCM$: 3900.00
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Heine wrote:
jph27 wrote:
If Cio doesn't return, the free agent market will be interesting to say the least. Just looking quickly at who could go for big wages off the top of my head:
Nerz
Bongiorno
Herklotz
Kelderman
Vogt
Sutterlin
Daniel
Ringheim
Ciolek
Demare
Lander
Felline
Bar
Should hopefully drive talent prices down overall
One of the craziest squads of talents ever assambled, quite a few riders I might go for next season (A)
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 23-01-2015 18:38
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 17833
Joined: 12-05-2012
PCM$: 0.00
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I hold out hope he will return because i'd love to see that team stay together.
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| rjc_43 |
Posted on 23-01-2015 18:38
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Team Leader
Posts: 6490
Joined: 13-10-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Smowz wrote:
I have respect for those who want to play the long game, though find it a little irratating to see teams who promote to the protour and promptly say screw it I am going to use my inflated wage to build a team for the future. I don't think sponsors would really have the patience for that, this is cycling after all and success is needed in the short term!
I think I've missed this team - care to share the name? That's certainly an exceptionally patient approach to be happy to promote and then pretty much accept relegation just to bounce back stronger - I used the patient approach to wait in CT and gain experience through wildcards so that once I promoted I'd hope to stay up!
Perhaps we need to see a goal related demotion clause? Fail 4 goals or more and get automatically demoted due to Sponsor walk out - realistic, no?
[url=cleavercycling.co.uk]  [/url] |
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| Heine |
Posted on 23-01-2015 18:40
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4470
Joined: 08-04-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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roturn wrote:
Heine wrote:
jph27 wrote:
If Cio doesn't return, the free agent market will be interesting to say the least. Just looking quickly at who could go for big wages off the top of my head:
Nerz
Bongiorno
Herklotz
Kelderman
Vogt
Sutterlin
Daniel
Ringheim
Ciolek
Demare
Lander
Felline
Bar
Should hopefully drive talent prices down overall
One of the craziest squads of talents ever assambled, quite a few riders I might go for next season (A)
Just let me have Herklotz, Demare, Vogt, Sutterlin and Nerz. You can have the others
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| Heine |
Posted on 23-01-2015 18:40
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4470
Joined: 08-04-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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roturn wrote:
Heine wrote:
jph27 wrote:
If Cio doesn't return, the free agent market will be interesting to say the least. Just looking quickly at who could go for big wages off the top of my head:
Nerz
Bongiorno
Herklotz
Kelderman
Vogt
Sutterlin
Daniel
Ringheim
Ciolek
Demare
Lander
Felline
Bar
Should hopefully drive talent prices down overall
One of the craziest squads of talents ever assambled, quite a few riders I might go for next season (A)
Just let me have Herklotz, Demare, Vogt, Sutterlin and Nerz. You can have the others
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 08-12-2025 01:34
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Bot Agent
Posts: Countless
Joined: 23.11.09
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| roturn |
Posted on 23-01-2015 18:40
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Team Manager
Posts: 22043
Joined: 24-11-2007
PCM$: 3900.00
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Heine wrote:
roturn wrote:
Heine wrote:
jph27 wrote:
If Cio doesn't return, the free agent market will be interesting to say the least. Just looking quickly at who could go for big wages off the top of my head:
Nerz
Bongiorno
Herklotz
Kelderman
Vogt
Sutterlin
Daniel
Ringheim
Ciolek
Demare
Lander
Felline
Bar
Should hopefully drive talent prices down overall
One of the craziest squads of talents ever assambled, quite a few riders I might go for next season (A)
Just let me have Herklotz, Demare, Vogt, Sutterlin and Nerz. You can have the others
I`m fine with Demare. |
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| fjhoekie |
Posted on 23-01-2015 18:45
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4368
Joined: 25-07-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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4 goals failed or more... Eh, I did that...  And that's without a cautios approach. I know I can't compare it with the PCT -> PT promotion, but with bringing in guys like Greipel, Ulanowski, Efimkin, Konovalovas and Vaitkus my goals were all pretty realistic, maybe a bit ambitious, but realistic.
In short: No fan of that relegation clause idea, eventhough it would be something which could happen in real life.
Manager of Team Popo4Ever p/b Morshynska in the PCM.Daily Man-Game |
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| jph27 |
Posted on 23-01-2015 18:55
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Team Leader
Posts: 7374
Joined: 20-03-2010
PCM$: 900.00
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roturn wrote:
I`m fine with Demare.
Maybe so, but you can bet I'm not
@fjhoekie: Pretty sure rjc was being sarcastic there |
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| SotD |
Posted on 23-01-2015 19:05
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World Champion
Posts: 12631
Joined: 29-11-2006
PCM$: 2980.00
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I would actually find the relegation thing based on missed goals cool. Only in the PT though. That way people would be waaay more cautious when picking goals, and those picking hard goals and managing them would be rewarded even more.
Honestly I don't think it would mean any relegations unless if people are extraordinarily unlucky with something like a crash. But still that would have to happen more than once, and if you tend to pick realistic goals then it should be no problem. I have reached 2/4 so far, and yet I think the remaining 2 where quite realistic. I gave it a bald move to say Simon Spilak could win the Tour de France and that Óscar Guerao could win the points jersey in the Vuelta. If I knew I would risk relegating, then I would not have picked the green jersey in Vuelta as I always knew that was a gamle, and I would change the Tour de France win to a podium instead. Then I would probably have changed one of my two top 10 GC races to atleast one of them being top 5 (I had Spilak ride them both, and podiuming in both). The last one is PT rankings top 10 which is also realistic.
I don't think anyone purposely chose unrealistic goals, but they might alter them slightly if they risked relegation.
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| SotD |
Posted on 23-01-2015 19:21
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World Champion
Posts: 12631
Joined: 29-11-2006
PCM$: 2980.00
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Seriously guys. If Demare comes on a free, do you really think you have a chance? He has been breathing Festina-air for a year now. Guys guys guys...
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| Smowz |
Posted on 23-01-2015 19:30
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Team Leader
Posts: 6386
Joined: 09-04-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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@rjc: To be honest I would prefer demotions to be based more on activity than goals. That though is difficult to measure. But I do dig what you are saying about goals - I have done okay but have never been close to getting all 5 goals in a season.
I still like the idea of the two tiered relegation thing bottom five teams relegate of which a maximum of three are promoted teams. Would put a bit of pressure on the PT regulars including the lazy posters.
I would name Puma and Venchi as slightly guilty of going hard on talents instead of attempting to stay up. Cio said so many times, though actually his team did do pretty well with Bennati and VDB. This year ING sort of went Pinot silly really. Prio I actually thought would do better but Machado was screwed a bit by super Alarcon and Rothaus/VW have given it a really good go.
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| knockout |
Posted on 24-01-2015 16:19
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8237
Joined: 21-12-2010
PCM$: 500.00
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roturn wrote:
Heine wrote:
roturn wrote:
Heine wrote:
jph27 wrote:
If Cio doesn't return, the free agent market will be interesting to say the least. Just looking quickly at who could go for big wages off the top of my head:
Nerz
Bongiorno
Herklotz
Kelderman
Vogt
Sutterlin
Daniel
Ringheim
Ciolek
Demare
Lander
Felline
Bar
Should hopefully drive talent prices down overall
One of the craziest squads of talents ever assambled, quite a few riders I might go for next season (A)
Just let me have Herklotz, Demare, Vogt, Sutterlin and Nerz. You can have the others
I`m fine with Demare.
You 2 are not alone on the market 
A Big Thank You To All MG Reporters! |
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| beagle |
Posted on 24-01-2015 17:02
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4235
Joined: 06-10-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Guys, has cio already been removed from game? Quite funny to see so many posts, where you promise to each other hard fight for Puma riders in transfer period
PS. to knockout: I´m cheering for you, as a repay you will sell Dzamastagic to me, deal?
Manager of Polar in Man-Game
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| rjc_43 |
Posted on 24-01-2015 18:22
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Team Leader
Posts: 6490
Joined: 13-10-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Smowz wrote:
@rjc: To be honest I would prefer demotions to be based more on activity than goals. That though is difficult to measure. But I do dig what you are saying about goals - I have done okay but have never been close to getting all 5 goals in a season.
I still like the idea of the two tiered relegation thing bottom five teams relegate of which a maximum of three are promoted teams. Would put a bit of pressure on the PT regulars including the lazy posters.
I would name Puma and Venchi as slightly guilty of going hard on talents instead of attempting to stay up. Cio said so many times, though actually his team did do pretty well with Bennati and VDB. This year ING sort of went Pinot silly really. Prio I actually thought would do better but Machado was screwed a bit by super Alarcon and Rothaus/VW have given it a really good go.
Of course demotions will always be a topic everyone has an opinion on, as no one wants to be demoted! It was just an idea that sprung to mind, and could just be another suggestion that leads the way to an idea that is better - like the teams that have no sponsorship activity are demoted due to sponsors leaving, rather than missing goals - like in PCM where the sponsor happiness is more important that necessarily achieving every goal. Though how you regulate how much is enough is the key point (clearly 5 posts in 19 race reports isn't enough, nor is one update since transfer season on my HQ thread - I know that).
Puma and Venchi, ok. I think it's a sign of old age when I start losing track of the riders on certain teams, I'll look those up and see what's a' cookin'.
Rothaus giving it a good go - well, Gomez Marchante is at the least
[url=cleavercycling.co.uk] [/url] |
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