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Sky Doping/Hate Thread
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| kirtley9 |
Posted on 17-09-2013 23:03
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I do think there is some doping in sky but that's just an opinion its unfair to say other people are wrong when there isn't 100% proof either way. |
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 18-09-2013 06:59
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wackojackohighcliffe wrote:
issoisso wrote:
I don't believe anyone can be that blatantly stupid as to believe Sky. It's willful ignorance, that's all it can possibly be. And to quote MLK, there's nothing more dangerous than willful ignorance. People trying desperately to believe what deep down they they know is patently impossible
Give people credit, some of them just know shit-all about doping.
So they should act differently if this is the case. I know shit about rocket science, so i dont try to force my oppinion to rocket scientists and everyone else.
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 18-09-2013 07:22
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You should, because the Czech rocket is actually revolutionary, thanks to its marginal details.
We had gotten used to our habits, and our lazy scientists have been unable to innovate the rocket science for years now.
Of course we're jealous at the Czech, because it's well-known you're a nation everyone likes to hate, so we can't stand your success. That's why, though we're no clue, we express concerns about the technical aspects of the new Czech rockets and the credibility of your scientists.
And as a Czech you're naturally expected to defend anything Czech, rocket-science or not.
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 18-09-2013 07:33
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World Champion
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Good that someone finally appreciate the undoubtful superiority of czech rocket science. You know, we had some setbacks recently, but that was because of our leading researcher was having issues with some exotic disease, that stopped him from being the best worldwide.
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| wackojackohighcliffe |
Posted on 18-09-2013 11:15
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
wackojackohighcliffe wrote:
issoisso wrote:
I don't believe anyone can be that blatantly stupid as to believe Sky. It's willful ignorance, that's all it can possibly be. And to quote MLK, there's nothing more dangerous than willful ignorance. People trying desperately to believe what deep down they they know is patently impossible
Give people credit, some of them just know shit-all about doping.
So they should act differently if this is the case. I know shit about rocket science, so i dont try to force my oppinion to rocket scientists and everyone else.
But I'm sure there are things you think you know a lot about but you're just wrong. |
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 18-09-2013 11:57
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Of course, but if this is the case, i dont go to 120pages long topic and write there things that were proven as too naive ten times before that.
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| wackojackohighcliffe |
Posted on 18-09-2013 12:09
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Of course, but if this is the case, i dont go to 120pages long topic and write there things that were proven as too naive ten times before that.
True, I was speaking more generally than just this topic. |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 07-12-2025 15:38
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| fosforgasXIII |
Posted on 18-09-2013 16:43
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Why is this thread even still alive? Pretty much everyone on this site with a bit of cycling knowledge allready accepted that Sky's "super science methods" are actually doping. Those who didn't won't be convinced otherwise until Froome admits it himself at Oprah Winfrey.
Only debating with creationists, conspiracy theorists and political fanboys seems more useless. |
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| Dippofix |
Posted on 18-09-2013 16:49
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fosforgasXIII wrote:
Why is this thread even still alive? Pretty much everyone on this site with a bit of cycling knowledge allready accepted that Sky's "super science methods" are actually doping. Those who didn't won't be convinced otherwise until Froome admits it himself at Oprah Winfrey.
Only debating with creationists, conspiracy theorists and political fanboys seems more useless.
It may be useless, but it can still be incredibly funny. Did you never trie to convert you're Religion teacher to atheism when you were at school? 
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| Strydz |
Posted on 18-09-2013 16:59
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Dippofix wrote:
fosforgasXIII wrote:
Why is this thread even still alive? Pretty much everyone on this site with a bit of cycling knowledge allready accepted that Sky's "super science methods" are actually doping. Those who didn't won't be convinced otherwise until Froome admits it himself at Oprah Winfrey.
Only debating with creationists, conspiracy theorists and political fanboys seems more useless.
It may be useless, but it can still be incredibly funny. Did you never trie to convert you're Religion teacher to atheism when you were at school?
Haha! I basically did attempt that at Primary School...
Oh and Dip, your sig is damn large 
Hells 500 Crew and 6 x Everester
Don Rd Launching Place
Melbourne Hill Rd Warrandyte
Colby Drive Belgrave South
William Rd The Patch
David Hill Rd Monbulk
Lakeside Drive Emerald
https://www.everesting.cc/hall-of-fame/ |
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| Dippofix |
Posted on 18-09-2013 17:02
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Strydz wrote:
Dippofix wrote:
fosforgasXIII wrote:
Why is this thread even still alive? Pretty much everyone on this site with a bit of cycling knowledge allready accepted that Sky's "super science methods" are actually doping. Those who didn't won't be convinced otherwise until Froome admits it himself at Oprah Winfrey.
Only debating with creationists, conspiracy theorists and political fanboys seems more useless.
It may be useless, but it can still be incredibly funny. Did you never trie to convert you're Religion teacher to atheism when you were at school?
Haha! I basically did attempt that at Primary School...
Oh and Dip, your sig is damn large
The bigger the better. 
Nah, i just couldn't really decide if i wanted the rider things or a classic froomebot.exe.
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| ShortsNL |
Posted on 19-09-2013 08:50
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fosforgasXIII wrote:
Why is this thread even still alive? Pretty much everyone on this site with a bit of cycling knowledge allready accepted that Sky's "super science methods" are actually doping. Those who didn't won't be convinced otherwise until Froome admits it himself at Oprah Winfrey.
Only debating with creationists, conspiracy theorists and political fanboys seems more useless.
Don't close your eyes for the possibility of the opposite or this place can become very biased very very fast.
The Dutch Wielerflits.nl is such a place where everybody has to be a Belkin fanboy and a Vacansoleil hater. Every other opinion is ridiculed and stomped down. In the long term, it's a toxic atmosphere.
Everyone should get the freedom to express their opinion (unless it's a hateful one) and to be treated with respect, no matter how ridculous some opinions may seem.
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| Luis Leon Sanchez |
Posted on 19-09-2013 10:05
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'unless its a hateful one'
this is named hate thread so...
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 19-09-2013 10:23
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 17833
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Luis Leon Sanchez wrote:
'unless its a hateful one'
this is named hate thread so...
The "Hate" in the title was used playfully as a joke, just to indicate that all Sky related dope/dislike/ridicule/etc talk should not clog up various other threads...
fosforgasXIII wrote:
Why is this thread even still alive? Pretty much everyone on this site with a bit of cycling knowledge allready accepted that Sky's "super science methods" are actually doping. Those who didn't won't be convinced otherwise until Froome admits it himself at Oprah Winfrey.
Only debating with creationists, conspiracy theorists and political fanboys seems more useless.
This is actually a more narrow minded view than any i've seen from "the fanboys"! There is naivety and then there is plain blindness...
Currently there is zero proof of organized (or individual) doping at Sky. Everything is anecdotal or circumstantial or based upon debatable science/figures.
Have you considered that Sky might in fact be clean and that Froome et. al. have just peaked or found a new level thanks to an improved support system (notice i didn't say training)? For any of their riders the performances are not in the realms of fantasy or actually just havn't appeared.
Even Froome has some defenses which have some base in fact (illness) which kept him behind early on in his career. Wiggins had previously finished 4th in the Tour before he joined Sky. Porte had been talked about as a serious talent. And they keep buying up talented, strong riders who will perform well at almost any team.
You say people won't be convinced until Froome admits it (or until there is a positive test), and therefore this is dumb or something... And what is wrong with this? Proof is an absolute not a scale, and yes perhaps it is faith that Sky is clean, but what is wrong with faith in your national team! Nothing, and to say otherwise because of the rough circumstantial stuff around, or because you don't like the team or it's style is, quite frankly, worse.
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| Neillster |
Posted on 19-09-2013 10:49
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Domestique
Posts: 692
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fosforgasXIII wrote:
Why is this thread even still alive? Pretty much everyone on this site with a bit of cycling knowledge allready accepted that Sky's "super science methods" are actually doping. Those who didn't won't be convinced otherwise until Froome admits it himself at Oprah Winfrey.
Only debating with creationists, conspiracy theorists and political fanboys seems more useless.
This is actually a more narrow minded view than any i've seen from "the fanboys"! There is naivety and then there is plain blindness...
Currently there is zero proof of organized (or individual) doping at Sky. Everything is anecdotal or circumstantial or based upon debatable science/figures.
Have you considered that Sky might in fact be clean and that Froome et. al. have just peaked or found a new level thanks to an improved support system (notice i didn't say training)? For any of their riders the performances are not in the realms of fantasy or actually just havn't appeared.
Even Froome has some defenses which have some base in fact (illness) which kept him behind early on in his career. Wiggins had previously finished 4th in the Tour before he joined Sky. Porte had been talked about as a serious talent. And they keep buying up talented, strong riders who will perform well at almost any team.
You say people won't be convinced until Froome admits it (or until there is a positive test), and therefore this is dumb or something... And what is wrong with this? Proof is an absolute not a scale, and yes perhaps it is faith that Sky is clean, but what is wrong with faith in your national team! Nothing, and to say otherwise because of the rough circumstantial stuff around, or because you don't like the team or it's style is, quite frankly, worse.[/quote]
Here here Manx!! Very well put!! Also, creationists do make some good points |
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 19-09-2013 11:30
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Arthur Schopenhauer
“Every miserable fool who has nothing at all of which he can be proud, adopts as a last resource pride in the nation to which he belongs; he is ready and happy to defend all its faults and follies tooth and nail, thus reimbursing himself for his own inferiority.”
Well, I subscribe to that idea, hence why I feel it's wrong to support X or Y on the sole basis of nationality.
Edited by Aquarius on 19-09-2013 11:30
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 19-09-2013 12:01
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However i like Schopenhauer and his thoughts, there are two sides of this coin. Blind nationalism is bad, but i dont like when any form of nationalism is smacked up. There is nothing bad when someone is proud of things their fathers and father's fathers achieved.
Together with that comes things ,which i am not proud of about my compatriots, i feel that it is natural.
Anyway, Sky are doping program, what is next on the menu?
Edited by Avin Wargunnson on 19-09-2013 12:02
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 19-09-2013 12:12
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Tour de France Champion
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Aquarius wrote:
Arthur Schopenhauer
“Every miserable fool who has nothing at all of which he can be proud, adopts as a last resource pride in the nation to which he belongs; he is ready and happy to defend all its faults and follies tooth and nail, thus reimbursing himself for his own inferiority.”
Well, I subscribe to that idea, hence why I feel it's wrong to support X or Y on the sole basis of nationality.
Seems to describe 90% of Americans And thank god Froome is Kenyan and Wiggins Belgian
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| fosforgasXIII |
Posted on 19-09-2013 16:38
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Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 845
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Dippofix wrote:
It may be useless, but it can still be incredibly funny. Did you never trie to convert you're Religion teacher to atheism when you were at school?
No, I had the luck to go to a secular school where I could choose for "non-confessional morals" instead of religion. I took part in a roman-catholic class once and we watched a movie about the pope
Spoiler TheManxMissile wrote:
fosforgasXIII wrote:
Why is this thread even still alive? Pretty much everyone on this site with a bit of cycling knowledge allready accepted that Sky's "super science methods" are actually doping. Those who didn't won't be convinced otherwise until Froome admits it himself at Oprah Winfrey.
Only debating with creationists, conspiracy theorists and political fanboys seems more useless.
This is actually a more narrow minded view than any i've seen from "the fanboys"! There is naivety and then there is plain blindness...
Currently there is zero proof of organized (or individual) doping at Sky. Everything is anecdotal or circumstantial or based upon debatable science/figures.
Have you considered that Sky might in fact be clean and that Froome et. al. have just peaked or found a new level thanks to an improved support system (notice i didn't say training)? For any of their riders the performances are not in the realms of fantasy or actually just havn't appeared.
Even Froome has some defenses which have some base in fact (illness) which kept him behind early on in his career. Wiggins had previously finished 4th in the Tour before he joined Sky. Porte had been talked about as a serious talent. And they keep buying up talented, strong riders who will perform well at almost any team.
You say people won't be convinced until Froome admits it (or until there is a positive test), and therefore this is dumb or something... And what is wrong with this? Proof is an absolute not a scale, and yes perhaps it is faith that Sky is clean, but what is wrong with faith in your national team! Nothing, and to say otherwise because of the rough circumstantial stuff around, or because you don't like the team or it's style is, quite frankly, worse.
I don't think anyone on this site ever claimed that all Sky riders dope or that only Sky riders dope. And indeed there isn't solid proof, that why I said "accepted" and not "know". But the improvements and performances of some Sky riders lead many of us to be sure of doping use within Team Sky, especially because the similarities with other teams from the past whose performences where backed up by doping use. For more details, there are 133 pages to read in this thread. |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 19-09-2013 17:06
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 19134
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
However i like Schopenhauer and his thoughts, there are two sides of this coin. Blind nationalism is bad, but i dont like when any form of nationalism is smacked up. There is nothing bad when someone is proud of things their fathers and father's fathers achieved.
Everyone in the Czech Republic and Slovakia is your father or father's father?
Are you a redneck?
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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