omg, you have just toally misunderstood how to play the cobbled classics. have been confused so far but your two last comments all make sense to your lack of success.
First of all, I actually wrote a pretty decentguide to how to play the cobbled classics for a year ago or so. But that was for 2011 but not alot has changed.
Paris-Rpubaix and Flanders requires that you are active on every cobbled section. Not just the last 40 km. In P-R, you need to be concentrated from the first cobbled section to the last. I haven´t tried the cobbles classics in PCM 12 yet, but tthe way to play should be similar.
In the first cobbled sections, where not so much happens (let´s say between 150 and 80 km to go), just make sure to have all your riders at the front, and always "dot" on the cobbles section to save energy. your two-three best riders should not have more than 145 or so in pulse. conserving energy for the last part is very important.
80-40 km to go
the speed will probably go up around this point. Just try to stay at the front with so much riders you can. At the front, I don´t mean you should necessarily be first, but just about the first 10-15 riders. The more of your riders that are still there, the greater the chance of some of them can fetch bottles in the end. (btw, make sure that your star-rider(s) are protected by a guy that has around 74-77 in cobbles. If you have a star rider over 80 and an another rider about 78 or higher, he can be your second card. So protect your two best ridersyour best rider)
40-0
Ballan and flecha seems to be your greatest opponents, so try and folllow them as much as possible. Hopefully you´ll learn how to conserve energy so you can manage to go with them, coz if you have cancellara and boonen in your team you shouldn´have any problems winning, not even on extreme. Try having cancellara following the attacks, but not cooperating (the dangerous attacks you should look out for will come by 15-20 km to go) and then have bonen in the second group.
Or you could aim for that the leading group (probably 4-8 guys) will end it all in a sprint finish. have cancellara reel it all in and bonnen win.
I just played the race before seeing your post for about ~30-40 minutes and not only that I lost, but I didn't even made the Top 10.
How can you explain the following situation: I'm on a couble section with Cancellara and Boonen, Flecha also of course.Flecha is 1 bike maximum ahead of me, he finishes the couble section let's say 1 second faster and after 100 meters he is 20 seconds ahead.20 SECONDS !!! Are you kidding me ? When I saw that I started a chase with Cancellara who was protected by Boonen, Cancellara on 80 DOT.There were like 20 km's to go and not only that I didn't caught Flecha, but Cancellara and Boonen just emptied both of their bars (who were almost full actually) and Ballan with a group of ryders just flew past me.
I ended up 11th with Cancellara and 14th with Boonen.
I will try what you said and if I don't win I will just give up.I had enough of this.
I need to clear some issues before though:
1."In the first cobbled sections, where not so much happens (let´s say between 150 and 80 km to go), just make sure to have all your riders at the front, and always "dot" on the cobbles section to save energy. your two-three best riders should not have more than 145 or so in pulse. conserving energy for the last part is very important."
Can't I just maintain position rather than using DOT on the cobble sections ? My team is Cancellara, Boonen, Gilbert, Boasson Hagen, Rui Costa, Kiserlovski, Tejay and Peter Velits so it's very difficult for the last 4
to keep the pace up, after the first 2 couble sections they just fall behind of the pack.
2.80-40 km to go
the speed will probably go up around this point. Just try to stay at the front with so much riders you can. At the front, I don´t mean you should necessarily be first, but just about the first 10-15 riders. The more of your riders that are still there, the greater the chance of some of them can fetch bottles in the end. (btw, make sure that your star-rider(s) are protected by a guy that has around 74-77 in cobbles. If you have a star rider over 80 and an another rider about 78 or higher, he can be your second card. So protect your two best ridersyour best rider)
At this point, I can have maximum 4 ryders in the leading group, and those are Cancellara, Boonen, Gilbert (76 COB) and Hagen (71 COB).The only one who can protect is Gilbert, and he can't for very long, let's say maximum 4 cobble sections.So, this is not a good option I guess.Should I protect Cancellara with Boonen or vice-versa ?
3.40-0
Ballan and flecha seems to be your greatest opponents, so try and folllow them as much as possible. Hopefully you´ll learn how to conserve energy so you can manage to go with them, coz if you have cancellara and boonen in your team you shouldn´have any problems winning, not even on extreme. Try having cancellara following the attacks, but not cooperating (the dangerous attacks you should look out for will come by 15-20 km to go) and then have bonen in the second group.
Or you could aim for that the leading group (probably 4-8 guys) will end it all in a sprint finish. have cancellara reel it all in and bonnen win.
Like I said, I just can't counter they attacks and neither chase them down.I'm out of options at this point.
Edited by RedDisciple on 09-01-2013 00:00
First question
Why are Costa, Kiserlovski, Vg and Velits at a cobbled race!!!
Gilbert should be able to protect for well over 150km with his current stats.
Hagen should last until the final 80km comfortably as well.
You can just maintain position, but you still need to keep a close eye on them to adjust effort when needed. This can only be done at x1.
80-40km Gilbert should be protecting one of them. If not then something is seriously wrong!
As yeo says. Cancellara can easily hold the race together in the final 20km, even the final 40-50km!!! Then Boonen will easily outsprint anyone at the end of the Ronde. Only Hushovd will get close in a sprint.
I dont get how Flecha can just ride away in the final 40km! Only Cancellara and Boonen have those kind of stats.
One final thing. Is this Career, and if so what fitness are your riders on?
TheManxMissile wrote:
One final thing. Is this Career, and if so what fitness are your riders on?
Good point.
It sounds like you're in the middle of a career and replaying Flanders till you get a good result. Therefore fitness is going to be a massive factor. It sounds like Flecha is at about 95-99 since he's so dominating, what are Cancellara and Boonen at?
Its was meant as an encouragement. To say that by following the advice it can be done
Haha, I understood that.
Now, RedDisciple. From now on I will call you Mr Red, the other name is too long to write.
To get the feeling of the P-R in PCM12, I actually recently played P-R by choosing the "classic" option in the menu. I played with omegapharma-quickstep so I did have Boonen on my team. But to make it a little bit harder I didn´t bring terpstra with me, so I had boonen at 82 CO, chavanel 79 CO, vandenbergh steegmans and devenyns all at 74, trentin at 72 and grabsch at 71. I don´t think my team could have been better than the one you have been playing, Mr Red
Difficulty was hard.
260-160 k to go
Just makin sure everybodys fine and at the front. The only thing one can watch out for is in the beginning with all the attacks make sure your three best riders have the dot on 55-60 to maintain the position i the peloton, and definitely don´t increase the pulse over 166. Before you reach the 1st cobbled section, make sure everybody have been fetched with bottles. Oh, and don´t bother protecting anyone. the effort is so low that I don´t think it´ll be a major difference.
160-80 k to go
I still didn´t protect anyone, but made sure at least my four best rider were at the front. coz if they are at the front, they spend less energy on the cobbles section than in the middle of the pack and wanting to advance.
Le me reframe the plan here. Don´t protect your leaders, but make sure at least have your 4 best riders at the front. In the long term, it is indeed very hard to keep track of 8 guys at the same time and make sure no one slips back. It´s easy to forget someone anyway. How do you keep your riders at the front then without spending so much energy? Basically, just pot the dot around 35-50 for your worst riders (cobblestats around 71-75) and your leader around 20-30. (If the speed of the peloton is low). I promise you, if you keep your 4 best riders at the front and they have between 25-45 in dot effort, they will stay at the front if the speed in the peloton is low. If you notice the pace do go up, maybe at a cobble section, then just raise the dot effort a bit. But Boonen, in my race recently, never had his dot effort higher than 45 until 70 km to go.
80-40 k to go This is the time when you should start considering protect your 1 or 2 best riders. If you have two domestiques at 77 in CO or lower, let them protect your two best leaders.
In my race, Grabsch with a CO stat of 69, was the first of my team to drop the peloton by 60 k to go or something like that. approx 100 men in the peloton. This was the time when the speed went up. Boonen were at the front, Trentin protecting him and steegmans protecting chavanel, although the frenchman didn´t have a good day. Vandenbergh had a good day though, and had him as the reserve protecter of boonen when trentin would tire out. I fetched bottles, and just tried to keep up with the pace. just try to be with your two best riders among the first 15 and you should be fine. And do not join any attacks, whatever happens.
40-20 k to go
All the dangerous men did attack with some 30 k to go. I had chava (he wasn´t having a good day) and vandenbergh slowly reeling them in. boonen didn´t had to do much effort.
20-0 k to go
Cancellara, ballan and flecha attacked, this time I joined. I was ahead of cancellara by 18 seconds (who was a little more ahead of ballan and flecha who then dropped back even more) or so for a while, then settled behind him with 10 k to go. won the sprint easy. vandenbergh got 10th.
Now, I won the race very easily (on difficulty Hard)and I don´t consider my team much better than yours. So you´re doing something wrong. Now, Mr Red, I´ll answer your questions.
Can't I just maintain position rather than using DOT on the cobble sections ? My team is Cancellara, Boonen, Gilbert, Boasson Hagen, Rui Costa, Kiserlovski, Tejay and Peter Velits so it's very difficult for the last 4
to keep the pace up, after the first 2 couble sections they just fall behind of the pack.
I really don´t see the point of bringing the 5 last men to this race. seriously, why do you have these stage races riders (except for boaasonhagen) in a cobbled race? that is stupid. why don´t you bring 5 domestiques, like trentin, lars bak, klostergaard, devenyns etc. these 5 guys all have other goals for a season.
You should have, for example, kiserlovski playing al pais vasco to build up for giro or the ardennes classics. You should have Velits playing al pais vasco coz he should have reached his peak by then so he can win the goddamn spanish stage race, or so he can reach his peak for the ardennes classics so he can win those three. And then you should rest him up for the tour.
Rui costa shouldn´t even be racing at this point. start racing him in may in some small race so he can peak first for the tour of switzerland and then rest him up for the vuelta a espana.
Boasson Hagen shouldn´t either be playing. He should be tired after having played some shitty spanishstage races in februar, winning some stages in P-N or T-A and then have reached his peak for Milan-SR. If he hasn´t, you can drag him on to the boring Tour of Catalonia where he can win some stage, and then rest him up completely for the tour.
So Mr Red, I have now also done a planning session for your riders Now I´ll answer your questions, if you´re still awake by this point and doesn´t just think I´m some kinda cocky dipshit.
1.
How can you explain the following situation: I'm on a couble section with Cancellara...
I can only explain it by assuming that you have conserved too much energy already and that´s why you can´t follow him. And yes, if Flecha are 20 meters in fornt of you suddenly, it´s just an increase in pace and shouldn´t be a problem.
2.
Can't I just maintain position rather than using DOT on the cobble sections ? My team is Cancellara, Boonen, Gilbert, Boasson Hagen, Rui Costa, Kiserlovski, Tejay and Peter Velits so it's very difficult for the last 4
to keep the pace up, after the first 2 couble sections they just fall behind of the pack.
You can use the maintain button thing, but only between the cobbles and when the speed is low. But never on the cobbles. I forbid you. Don´t even think about it.
If you have riders falling of the back after two cobbles section, then it is because you don´t have them at the front. Use the dot to have all your riders in the front as much as possible. I guarantee they´ll last at least 7 cobbles sections.
3.
At this point, I can have maximum 4 ryders in the leading group, and those are Cancellara, Boonen, Gilbert (76 COB) and Hagen (71 COB).The only one who can protect is Gilbert, and he can't for very long, let's say maximum 4 cobble sections.So, this is not a good option I guess.Should I protect Cancellara with Boonen or vice-versa ?
4 riders isn´t much, but that doesn´t really matters. as long as you ahve someone fetch bottles and your two star riders.
No, someone as good as cancellara shouldn´t protect boonen. what I would do in that situation you´re describing (hypothetically, coz I´d never bring those ther guys in the race in the first place) is having Hagen protect the rider with the guy you most want to win or the guy who seems to have the best chance of winning. Let Gilbert do his own race and fetch bottles for the others.
Now, Mr Red, you ahve two options when it remains 30 k.
option nr 1. Lets say that you notice that cancellara in your team has a slightly harder day and having just a little more trouble hanging in there. Have him reel in attacks with 25 k to go and save boonen for the last 15-20 k. Then, when boonen attacks, (make sure he counterattacks with someone else, coz boonen can win anyway in a sprint) just have cancellara follow everybody elses attacks and disturb them.
option nr 2. If you´re good enough you ahve both cancell. and boonen at approx same energy levels with 30 k to go, so you just play out one to another. Let one guy attack, the other one follows the opponents. If it comes down to a sprint, have cancellara leading out the sprint. Boonen should win easy.
Now I think you´ll do better if you do as I say. I ahve also done a season plan for the other riders, which might be helpful in tha future.
I Imagine this´ll be my longest post so far ever, and keep me updated. But two questions:
How long have you been playing this game? (In real life years, that is)
Which difficulty is it?
forgot to ask what manxmissile actually asked: which fitness do your both riders have? They should have at least 95. reach 99 is kinda hard, but 96 shouldn´t be a problem.
80-40km Gilbert should be protecting one of them. If not then something is seriously wrong!
he can do that as well, and have boasson hagen fetch bottle sand making his own race. It depends on how much energy they have left.
and you´re right, Missile, cancellara could easily hold the race together for the almost entire race.
I really don´t see the point of bringing the 5 last men to this race. seriously, why do you have these stage races riders (except for boaasonhagen) in a cobbled race? that is stupid. why don´t you bring 5 domestiques, like trentin, lars bak, klostergaard, devenyns etc. these 5 guys all have other goals for a season.
You should have, for example, kiserlovski playing al pais vasco to build up for giro or the ardennes classics. You should have Velits playing al pais vasco coz he should have reached his peak by then so he can win the goddamn spanish stage race, or so he can reach his peak for the ardennes classics so he can win those three. And then you should rest him up for the tour.
Rui costa shouldn´t even be racing at this point. start racing him in may in some small race so he can peak first for the tour of switzerland and then rest him up for the vuelta a espana.
Boasson Hagen shouldn´t either be playing. He should be tired after having played some shitty spanishstage races in februar, winning some stages in P-N or T-A and then have reached his peak for Milan-SR. If he hasn´t, you can drag him on to the boring Tour of Catalonia where he can win some stage, and then rest him up completely for the tour.
So Mr Red, I have now also done a planning session for your riders Now I´ll answer your questions, if you´re still awake by this point and doesn´t just think I´m some kinda cocky dipshit.
I don't have what other cyclists to bring in.Almost my entire team sucks at Cobble, except for Cancellara, Boonen, Gilbert and Boasson Hagen.I have only one other rider who is good at this, at that is Sagan with 74 cobble, but I have other plans for him.And I will win the Ardennes with Gilbert, or at least I hope so.
forgot to ask what manxmissile actually asked: which fitness do your both riders have? They should have at least 95. reach 99 is kinda hard, but 96 shouldn´t be a problem.
95 ? LOL no, Cancellara has 75 fitness and Boonen 76.I don't know Flecha's fitness.It's over 9000 !!!Maybe this is the problem after all.
How long have you been playing this game? (In real life years, that is)
Which difficulty is it?
I'm playing since july.And I made like a huge break since November until now.
Normal difficulty.
I'll try to play the race later following your advices and see what happens.
Edited by RedDisciple on 09-01-2013 08:41
Yeah, the fitness is it...
You should let Cancellara and Boonen peak for the races that are their goals, just like the other riders also have to...
You shouldn't underestimate fitness, it's important.
Letting both guys peak in training fitness and doing some other races with them just before the classics will get them a 95+ fitness...
You should try that
Not impossible. Just very very hard...
With this fitness Boonen & Canc have the quality of a Nuyens/Vansummeren/Gilbert/Boom/Hushovd that guys...
Edit: When Vansummeren, Boom etc. are at a good form...
Edited by Jesleyh on 09-01-2013 09:30
And as you said earlier you are just **** at the game
what is the word you want to use? crap, shit? can´t think of another word that makes sense
Mr Red, the fitness thing is THE most essential aspect of succeeding in this game. go to the training plan and if you want boonen and cancellara to peak at roubaix, I always pick the roubaix01. So, as missile spoke, we´ve found the problem.
But you´re still new and, according to manxmissile you´re still shit or crap at this game. And I like the using of a 9gag meme
and you don´t need so many good cobbles riders anyway if you have two stars. bring boonen, cancellara, hagen and five guys that aren´t so good. But do not bring stage races guys. It´s no use.
Consider doing some single classics races (no season) to get some practice in riding cobbles. Pick a team like OPQ and select a team of the best cobble riders. You'll also get Boonen, Chavanel and Terpstra in decent fitness. Try out the different strategies suggested here and in the tips section and get a feel for managing the race and riders and what it takes to win. You'll develop a feel for what works when, and then you can take that knowledge back to your season and hone your strategy for those races.
