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27-02-2021 07:31
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Giro d'Italia - Discussion
Bushwackers
Gotta say, Amador is looking pretty awful. I think his time in this game is pretty much over and he's now struggling to compete for top 10's. I'm kinda bummed but it had to happen at some point I guess. It would also be nice if my team went for breakaways to make up for it, but nobody seems interested in that Sad

All around great reporting and enjoyable race to follow otherwise, thank you Fabianski!
 
Eden95
Fucking finally Gregory Jesus Christ. Talansky too strong decimating that group was bad for Greg and was spent too early. A shake he didn’t contest the KOM either. But he did something good god

Congrats Matt!
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roturn
16Kamil MaleckiGazelles.t.
...
25Rafael VallsAegon - Peroni1 min later


That`s a joke. GC leader bonus a bit overpowered in 3rd week of a GT. Pfft


Malecki really hard to drop here. Once more the AI fails whenever the GC leader team has riders in the break. Here even 3 Gazelle riders despite having the GC lead...awful to see as it was one of the hardest stage and one, where he should have lost at least 10-15min normally.

Nesset, Kirsch etc. moving up due to the break. Valls still 12th but he should attack next stage I guess.


Velits in the break was good. Him struggling that much wasn`t. Going for the KoM instead of stage normally is okay, but he shouldn`t lose out that much then and later be dropped as well due to this.

Carboni and Ciccone both with very good effort on that stage though and biggest surprise...Frison still not OTL.

Thanks for the report, very detailed as usual with all those droppings and overviews. And congrats Matt. Good to see Talansky upping it after Spilak failed.
 
ember
Congratulations on the win, matt. And also thank you again, Fabianski, for making the most of the report.

Unfortunate to see Taaramäe not take advantage of Mortirolo. I really thought he was going to go early, seeing the team take control for a little time early on the climb. Though, it's a tricky situation, as he needs to watch out for Kritskiy from behind too. Having said that, I'll rather have him try for pink instead of defending 2nd place overall.

Only two chances left, on paper they should be more than difficult enough to distance Malecki, but as this stage has shown, Taaramäe needs to make the difference himself. If not, this will be quite a GT win for Malecki Shock
 
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Bikex
Absolutely disgraceful AI. It's already annoying enough that my team refuses to join any breaks, when they are so successful, now Reis just lost 10 minutes for no reason at all. He should've been a hot contender for a top 5 result and now I'll have to be happy if he finishes top 20. After the TTT win I thought the giro couldn't end up being a disappointment for my team anymore now it seems like it will result in us being in heavy relegation danger. I wouldn't have minded Reis being beaten by similarly strong riders but him just dropping and loosing 10 minutes on anyone is an absolute joke, added to that several other teams that for some reason are by the screwed up AI favorites to go into any break get gifted ranking points left and right. With PCM18 it basically doesn't matter what riders you select to go to races, it seems like results are only decided by throwing the dice. I hope we go back to PCM15 where at least it was expectable what kind of rider types do well.

This of course doesn't take anything away from the great quality of your reports Fabianski, but the results delivered by this awful AI are just extremely frustrating, especially when it never seems to be my team profiting from it.
 
Croatia14
Why should it be a problem if Gazelle puts up riders in the break? They usually should go there with no real GC riders. Teams do it irl as well if the yellow jersey is a stage hunter. So it's more a sign of good AI than bad AI with this big breaks.

The problem is that climbers didn't attack, but it also was a bad day to attack. Just look at how Ancona rode away from the group, But the final climb was too casual so that he got reeled back in cause slipstream was a factor.

A good stage for somebody to hang on as long as you can stay in a group. That also explains why low hill riders suffered more, as they got spit out by the tough passages. But the mountain stat didn't have that much of an effect cause it wasn't as steep, benefiting a Voeckler-type rider in Malecki.
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roturn
Croatia14 wrote:
Why should it be a problem if Gazelle puts up riders in the break? They usually should go there with no real GC riders. Teams do it irl as well if the yellow jersey is a stage hunter. So it's more a sign of good AI than bad AI with this big breaks.

The problem is that climbers didn't attack, but it also was a bad day to attack. Just look at how Ancona rode away from the group, But the final climb was too casual so that he got reeled back in cause slipstream was a factor.

A good stage for somebody to hang on as long as you can stay in a group. That also explains why low hill riders suffered more, as they got spit out by the tough passages. But the mountain stat didn't have that much of an effect cause it wasn't as steep, benefiting a Voeckler-type rider in Malecki.

While this is correct in terms of Gazelle indeed, the game seems to struggle with playing it right then for all other teams e.g. Aker or Tinkoff.

When Malecki is almost isolated in the peloton, the other teams would need to make him suffer but they don`t really ride as strong as needed for it as the game basically takes the GC leader team first to chase, which doesn`t work when having riders in the break.

So while Gazelle is doing all right here, the AI still suffers from this situation.

From a more neutral point of view, it`s kind of a different but still thrilling GT, from a GC favourite point of view, it is surely not nice to follow.
 
tsmoha
As usual, I don't really complain about the AI. It's still frustrating, though, that it still counts Gazelle as a breakaway team and struggles to get the other teams playing it more smart. As said before, Haig is in a pleasantly good GC position. But the fact that Gazelle still puts three riders into a break and we don't, is frustrating. Guess it's only because we had a promising GC rider prior (!) to the race instead of adjusting the tactics with Malecki dominating the GC for a long time now. At this point, I'm only hoping for Haig to benefit from this passive racing until the end, though.
 
Fabianski
AI rants coming up again I guess...
 
cio93
PCM 15 or PCM 20?
 
alexkr00
Well that was unexpected. Finally something good from Boswell, who is in a very decent place in the GC as well now.
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baseballlover312
cio93 wrote:
PCM 15 or PCM 20?


Roturn said we'd have a thread discussing that kind of thing in the near future, so I guess that's a discussion we'll have pretty soon.

I don't think the breakaway being let go for big time on a third week flat stage is particularly egregious anyway, it's just that the break has also been let go in the vast majority of stages already. Sending a sprinter to a GT is already such a risk just cause of the sunk cost of mountain race days, to let opportunity after opportunity on the flats slip by is hard to see.

Very nice win for Boswell though, and another awesome report! I'm really sorry Fabianski that your amazing work is being overshadowed here. It's not fair and you deserve better.
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Ollfardh
Oh, so close! Really happy with that result in a very entertaining report!
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
 
Fabianski
baseballlover312 wrote:
I'm really sorry Fabianski that your amazing work is being overshadowed here. It's not fair and you deserve better.

Thanks for the kind words. I don't take the AI criticism personally, it's just a pity that we're discussing about the game instead of the race. As you say, it's mainly the breakaway wins early in the race that led to this anger - breakaways in the 3rd week are pretty usual, especially on a profile like today's.

I mean, I often shook my head while running the races as well, as the AI decisions just seemed so stupid. But honestly, after the first two weeks I could more or less guess how the stage would turn out (it wasn't always true, though). A breakaway win today seemed very likely to me. And while I didn't expect the Mortirolo to be such a no-factor, I didn't expect it to create big gaps either - which probably would have been a completely different story had the finish line been on top! That's why I wrote about a "waste" of the climb... (by the way, this Giro is exactly the 2015 route of the "real-life" Giro except for the TT - else some stages might have had a more MG-optimized profile).
 
matt17br
Cool to sneak a rider in the break again, we really need to get the buckets out for any kind of raindrop we can get here, in order to partly make up for the disastrous amount of points Spilak will lose out on. Congrats alex and thanks once again Fabianski!
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Ollfardh
On the topic of AI, I'm pretty sure Froome had one of his Tour wins without a stage win because everything went to the breakaways.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
 
cio93
Ollfardh wrote:
On the topic of AI, I'm pretty sure Froome had one of his Tour wins without a stage win because everything went to the breakaways.

Friendly reminder that none of the talk about real life comparisons matters in a game where 4 stage wins are objectively superior to 4th in the GC, and only one of those things can be achieved by 50k riders.

Unless you suggest to drop the concept of ranking points for stage results?
 
knockout
My team should either try to get someone in the break or chase. This - nah. Thanks for another great report.
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Ollfardh
cio93 wrote:
Ollfardh wrote:
On the topic of AI, I'm pretty sure Froome had one of his Tour wins without a stage win because everything went to the breakaways.

Friendly reminder that none of the talk about real life comparisons matters in a game where 4 stage wins are objectively superior to 4th in the GC, and only one of those things can be achieved by 50k riders.

Unless you suggest to drop the concept of ranking points for stage results?


Well we play Man Game with Pro Cycling Manager, which is intended to replay real life events, not to fit the Man Game. The more different you want the MG to be compared to RL, the "stranger" results you will get.

That being said, I have always been in favour of more realism.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
 
Eden95
lol that’d be right
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