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PCM.daily Stat Discussion
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Posted on 07-12-2021 09:20
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Tafiolmo
Ho0liGaN wrote:
Been a while since i've shown my face here. Good to see the new update for the DB is out. like what you guys did with the matrix, getting 83 as a max stat. That way 83's will more consistently outperform 80's, while creating a slightly bigger gap between the very good, and the best.

And also diminishing the problems that +4 and +5 days will have for riders, since they will hit the max stat limit earlier, and young riders outgrowing the current top riders in only a couple of seasons.

Furthermore, its good to see you've kept my recommendations to keep certain riders at low REC so they don't start overperforming in 3 week races, or to show their inconsistency in general.

There are some questionable stats for certain riders, things I will definitely change to make them fit better with how I perceive them. But all in all, very good job on the new DB


Glad you like the update and yes we are pleased with using higher stats to show the very best over the very good and I still think though that we could be more extreme with things like rec. Please mention the riders that are questionable and we will look at those, as given the size of the amount of riders in the DB with constant ups and downs there are always going to be some that might get overlooked.
pcmdaily.com/files/exppack/PCM2020/dbteambanner2021.png
 
hansw
My updated mountain stats after the Giro:

83
Pogacar

82
Pinot
S. Yates
Bernal
Lopez
Roglic
Carapaz

81
Landa
Porte
Quintana
Caruso
Thomas
Kruijswijk

80
Vlasov
Dumoulin
Martinez
Mas
Uran
Kuss
Carthy
Buchmann
Chaves
Almeida
Bardet
A. Yates

79
Evenepoel
Sosa
Bilbao
Geoghegan Hart
Kelderman
Sivakov
Hindley
D. Martin
G. Martin
Ciccone

78
Woods
Vingegaard
Nibali
Soler
Kaemna
Poels
Reichenbach
Valverde
Majka
Fuglsang
OConnor
Pozzovivo
De la Cruz
Bennett
Hamilton
Mollema
Higuita
Gaudu
 
StevenGreen
Kuss>Kruijswijk
"He made a bigger comeback than Easter Sunday."



 
King_Ric
What are your major evaluations after the giro?
 
Ho0liGaN
Tafiolmo wrote:
Ho0liGaN wrote:
Been a while since i've shown my face here. Good to see the new update for the DB is out. like what you guys did with the matrix, getting 83 as a max stat. That way 83's will more consistently outperform 80's, while creating a slightly bigger gap between the very good, and the best.

And also diminishing the problems that +4 and +5 days will have for riders, since they will hit the max stat limit earlier, and young riders outgrowing the current top riders in only a couple of seasons.

Furthermore, its good to see you've kept my recommendations to keep certain riders at low REC so they don't start overperforming in 3 week races, or to show their inconsistency in general.

There are some questionable stats for certain riders, things I will definitely change to make them fit better with how I perceive them. But all in all, very good job on the new DB


Glad you like the update and yes we are pleased with using higher stats to show the very best over the very good and I still think though that we could be more extreme with things like rec. Please mention the riders that are questionable and we will look at those, as given the size of the amount of riders in the DB with constant ups and downs there are always going to be some that might get overlooked.


I might be biased, but MVDP should have a lot better hill stats. Given his results in the following races the past 2years:
RVV
AGR
Strade Bianche
Brabantse Pijl
Giro Di Lombardia
Tireno-adriatico
World Championships

Just to name a few. He's the only rider that was able to make Alaphilipe look like an amateur when sprinting up hill. His dominant showing in Strade Bianche this year, and his solo win in Tireno vs Pogacar and WVA who were also riding solo. Deserve of more than "just" 79. I've included Lombardia, as that race is usually reserved for climbers with endurance and a punch (ala, mollema, fuglsang etc) and despite MvDP being a pretty abysmal climber he manged a top 10 placing, after being in persuit solo for kilometers on end.

If riders like Crosnefroy and ullisi get 81, he should AT LEAST get equal, especially since his climbing stat is much lower than all of his opponents.

With how the game only starts using the hill stat when effort is increased above 85, and below that it goes off the climbing stat, he's feeling to weak on paper (haven't had the time to try out the DB in game.


On the other hand we have evenepoel, and yes I know he's seen as the new Merckx by some, he feels way too strong on paper. With his only weakness being a low REC.
It's unfair to judge him on this Giro, where he simply wasn't as strong as these stats say he is (coming back from such a severe injury and without any races didn't help him). That said, what has he shown us really... Is he really as good as we give him credit for? Especially his climbing stats seem way too high if you're going to give him such high support stats. He's absolutely destroyed everything in the youth classes, but do we all really think he's this good already in the elite peleton, even if we don't look at the Giro this year, and just look at what he has produced in the previous season.

Finally, there's the case of Nibali, I made this point last year, when he wasn't strong enough to contend for the podium in the weakest Giro in years. This year, sadly, he's getting too old. I know he's a fan favourite around here. But his results from 2020 and 2021 simply don't justify his stats. (I know this was made before the giro, but let's just say I saw it coming)

There are some small things here and there which I would change, small changes, like 1 or 2 stat differences (wva getting slightly lower SPR for instance). And taking the Giro into consideration, Caruso would get a small bump for instance. But I'm not here to nitpick. I just felt that these 3 examples were some that stood out to me.
 
MartijnVDD
I can see how you think Evenepoel is overrated based on his results, but I actually like that this database dares to make some predictions as well. Evenepoel has shown several times that he will be one of the contenders for GTs in the upcoming years. His injury and long revalidation have taken away three chances to show he's up there: Giro 2020, Vuelta 2020 and Giro 2021. Though my opinion is that this year's Giro has actually proven that he can compete with the best in GTs: 2nd place before the first rest day, after nine months without racing.
 
StevenGreen
Predictions are modeled by the potential stat. I agree with Hooligan that Evenenpoel is way overrated in this DB
"He made a bigger comeback than Easter Sunday."



 
dominox
I know it seems weird to have me writing here but I kinda need to.

Could somebody send me pictures of stats sorted by average of all WT teams and Alpecin-Fenix, B&B Hotels P/B KTM, Team Arkéa - Samsic and Total Direct Energie? From PCM.daily pack of course.

Tour de France 2021 (game) has it's release on thursday and from what I see you can probably change stats of all riders in the game or at least modify it in some way. And I wanted more realistic kinda stats than overpowered ones for half of the peloton.

Would anyone be so kind? Grin

I know I can download database, but I kinda don't want to download 20GB of files only to check stats. And photos are kinda faster way. Thanks in advance!
 
Experien
My after Giro


83
Pogacar

82
Bernal
Roglic
Carapaz

81
Pinot
Lopez
S. Yates
Landa
Porte
Quintana
A. Yates

80
Caruso
Thomas
Kruijswijk
Vlasov
Dumoulin
Martinez
Mas
Uran
Kuss
Carthy
Buchmann
Chaves
Almeida
Bardet

79
Evenepoel
Sosa
Bilbao
Geoghegan Hart
Kelderman
Sivakov
Hindley
D. Martin
G. Martin
Ciccone

78
Woods
Vingegaard
Nibali
Soler
Kaemna
Poels
Reichenbach
Valverde
Majka
Fuglsang
OConnor
Pozzovivo
De la Cruz
Bennett
Hamilton
Mollema
Higuita
Gaudu
 
cunego59
dominox wrote:
I know I can download database, but I kinda don't want to download 20GB of files only to check stats. And photos are kinda faster way. Thanks in advance!

If you check the third post of our Support/FAQ Thread, you'll find a link to download just the cdb file, which you can then check and edit with any DB editor Wink
 
dominox
cunego59 wrote:
dominox wrote:
I know I can download database, but I kinda don't want to download 20GB of files only to check stats. And photos are kinda faster way. Thanks in advance!

If you check the third post of our Support/FAQ Thread, you'll find a link to download just the cdb file, which you can then check and edit with any DB editor Wink

Okay, I haven't really thought about that, thank you. On the other hand, all editors I can find simply don't work on my PC, Fast Editor has some issues which launching, Lachi is a bit too complicated when you only need to check stats alone, Excel one could never load cdb file for me. I hope simple overwriting "OfficialRelease" file will work in simple story mode to just see stats in game Grin
 
StevenGreen
82
Pogacar
Roglic
Bernal

81
Pinot
Yates S
Kuss
Porte
"He made a bigger comeback than Easter Sunday."



 
Experien
3rd week Giro

i.ibb.co/KGywcJC/Screenshot-20210601-191713-Facebook-1-2.jpg
 
Tafiolmo
Thanks for the mtn stat suggestions post Giro and we have almost finished the Giro update but I can tell you that there have been no real major changes for those riders at the top but bear in mind that since we are giving out more 83 and 82 stats overall now more riders below this will be higher as well and as always riders who did well last year such as Hindley but no good this year still keep their stats for now. In fact most of the stat work has been more about back-ups which we continue to focus on more than the main stats. Like who is a really good acc rider in the mtns like Bernal or terrible one like Buchmann. Which riders when they attack tend to stay away and which ones don't like Quintana etc.

Personally I think MVDP has the correct hill stat given his amazing res and acc stats and the examples given by Hooligan are credible examples but races like Ronde don't really need a high hill stat to win and Strade is commonly won by cobbled classic riders over the years as well and let us just say the the AGR was a +5 day anyway. I also wouldn't read too much with his accelaration over Alaphilippe on the final climb at SB either as this was no Mur and an early season race and not a more serious climb. MVDP with his amazing back-ups is going to feel so much better anyway than his 79 hill and if anything he might need a mtn boost at most (we will look at this) and move him more in the direction of a rider like Mohoric in terms of a mtn stat. I don't think the comparison to Ulissi and Cosnefroy is a fair one as these compared to MVDP are one trick ponies and don't have his all round abilities.

I also think Remco is well statted especially since we have now given Almeida from that team a higher mtn stat. Remco had far too much expectation on him for the Giro and really it was no more than a return race after so much time out. Before we think about lowering his stats more races would be needed.

Nibali has been decreased to 78 and Ciccone increased to 79 so Ciccone should be team leader from Trek and Caruso has been increased to 80. Caruso also has the benefit of Giro now being in fav races and nat bonus (if that works) and he already had high res and rec which I think is now 81.

The hardest has been Bernal to stat. Has shown he is better than expected on shorter mtns and if he did indeed have back problems and won despite of this he has justified his 83 mtn but if no back problem was there then there is more of a debate of whether he should be 82 or 83.
Edited by Tafiolmo on 02-06-2021 22:05
pcmdaily.com/files/exppack/PCM2020/dbteambanner2021.png
 
Ollfardh
I would put Bernal on par with Roglic and Pogi in MO stat, but lower in literally everything else.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
 
Tafiolmo
Ollfardh wrote:
I would put Bernal on par with Roglic and Pogi in MO stat, but lower in literally everything else.


Despite being a point higher than Roglic in mtn Bernal is still behind the Slovenians overall in stats making him the third best GT rider, it's only his acc which is a point higher than Roglic that is of note.
pcmdaily.com/files/exppack/PCM2020/dbteambanner2021.png
 
Ollfardh
Tafiolmo wrote:
Ollfardh wrote:
I would put Bernal on par with Roglic and Pogi in MO stat, but lower in literally everything else.


Despite being a point higher than Roglic in mtn Bernal is still behind the Slovenians overall in stats making him the third best GT rider, it's only his acc which is a point higher than Roglic that is of note.


Hmm, I'd say Roglic is a killer in the last 500 metres of summit finishes though. With the exception of Fleche Wallonne, I don't think he lost one of those in the last year.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
 
Tafiolmo
Ollfardh wrote:
Tafiolmo wrote:
Ollfardh wrote:
I would put Bernal on par with Roglic and Pogi in MO stat, but lower in literally everything else.


Despite being a point higher than Roglic in mtn Bernal is still behind the Slovenians overall in stats making him the third best GT rider, it's only his acc which is a point higher than Roglic that is of note.


Hmm, I'd say Roglic is a killer in the last 500 metres of summit finishes though. With the exception of Fleche Wallonne, I don't think he lost one of those in the last year.


There is also a +3 difference in hill stat between the two riders and +3 in res despite Bernal being one higher in mtn. Therefore I don't think the 78 and 77 acc these two riders have would put Roglic at much of a disadvantage overall but if it's generally thought that Roglic is at least as good as Bernal in acc or even better I'll change this.
Edited by Tafiolmo on 02-06-2021 23:14
pcmdaily.com/files/exppack/PCM2020/dbteambanner2021.png
 
Ollfardh
Tafiolmo wrote:
Ollfardh wrote:
Tafiolmo wrote:
Ollfardh wrote:
I would put Bernal on par with Roglic and Pogi in MO stat, but lower in literally everything else.


Despite being a point higher than Roglic in mtn Bernal is still behind the Slovenians overall in stats making him the third best GT rider, it's only his acc which is a point higher than Roglic that is of note.


Hmm, I'd say Roglic is a killer in the last 500 metres of summit finishes though. With the exception of Fleche Wallonne, I don't think he lost one of those in the last year.


There is also a +3 difference in hill stat between the two riders and +3 in res despite Bernal being one higher in mtn. Therefore I don't think the 78 and 77 acc these two riders have would put Roglic at much of a disadvantage overall but if it's generally thought that Roglic is at least as good as Bernal in acc or even better I'll change this.


Well, as you say the 3 hill gap should already have an impact on the finishes as well. But I never saw Bernal as a climber with a deadly acceleration or something. I mean he's no Basso, but Roglic and Pogacar are something different.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
 
Tafiolmo
Ollfardh wrote:
Tafiolmo wrote:
Ollfardh wrote:
Tafiolmo wrote:
Ollfardh wrote:
I would put Bernal on par with Roglic and Pogi in MO stat, but lower in literally everything else.


Despite being a point higher than Roglic in mtn Bernal is still behind the Slovenians overall in stats making him the third best GT rider, it's only his acc which is a point higher than Roglic that is of note.


Hmm, I'd say Roglic is a killer in the last 500 metres of summit finishes though. With the exception of Fleche Wallonne, I don't think he lost one of those in the last year.


There is also a +3 difference in hill stat between the two riders and +3 in res despite Bernal being one higher in mtn. Therefore I don't think the 78 and 77 acc these two riders have would put Roglic at much of a disadvantage overall but if it's generally thought that Roglic is at least as good as Bernal in acc or even better I'll change this.


Well, as you say the 3 hill gap should already have an impact on the finishes as well. But I never saw Bernal as a climber with a deadly acceleration or something. I mean he's no Basso, but Roglic and Pogacar are something different.


Actually it's a 4 point gap to Roglic, the 3 point gap was to Pogacar and anyway decided to give Roglic one point more acc than Bernal as well. I thought one of the most impressive things about Bernal in the first two weeks of the Giro was actually his acc.
pcmdaily.com/files/exppack/PCM2020/dbteambanner2021.png
 
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