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PCM.daily Stat Discussion
purepasd
I would add Luke Rowe to the list, he's been so impressive in crosswinds many times.
 
Tafiolmo
I know he does nothing but crash since leaving Quickstep but nobody's mentioned Terpstra but all the others are the expected names. Also glad Rowe was mentioned as well another huge flat. Another contender of course is Trentin.

To make the task more interesting and if we say all of these riders are worth a flat between 83/82 and 80, what stat value would you give them?

I've mentioned 83 but I'm not sure anybody is as good as that and if Cancellara were still around at his best then he'd be the only one worth 83.
Edited by Tafiolmo on 13-10-2020 21:40
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Ollfardh
It's hard to say without the res stat also being present, but I'd say


Van Aert 82
Van der Poel 81
Kung 81
Asgreen 80
Sagan 80
Politt 80
Lampaert 80
Van Avermaet 80
Pedersen 80
Cancellara, even if he retired a few years ago 80

Terpsta 79 max for me, when he's not crashing he's also not performing.
B.Jungels 80
S.K.Andersen 79
T.Martin 79
Rowe 79
Stuyven 80
Naesen 80
Vanmarcke 79
Gilbert 78
Benoot 78
Trentin 78 for me, I feel he just fails each time he's close to winning a big race)
Stybar 79
Degenkolb 78
Kristoff 78

Probably forgot a few still.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
 
Tafiolmo
Good list but I'd probably make VDP equal or even better than Van Aert.

Terpstra was impressive in Paris-Tours 2019 where even Naesen had trouble staying with him on the flat. Kragh won the race from an attack and I'd say Kragh is probably worth 80 flat if riders like Van Aert and VDP are like 81 and 82.

Trentin's problem is not really his flat imo but suspect STA and RES and Like Rowe he's not really a great cobble rider and truly a flat rider.

Asgreen and Kung are brute force and two of the best and are capable of just going off the front of a group or peloton and riding to the finish. Stuyven was similar but not as good as a few years ago.

The trick for the flat stat is always how to combine it with RES as some riders like Trentin have good flat but they aren't able to sustain that effort the same as somebody like Asgreen or Kragh.

Vanmarcke is another who often can't sustain his effort for a long period and is certainly better over cobbles than pure flat.
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Ollfardh
Can agree with pretty much everything you said except the first one, Van Aert has the bigger engine, while Mathieu has the better acceleration. Of course other stats come into play as well, so assuming Van Aert has top RES so I can live with equal FL.

Either way, I think it's all close unlike 10 years ago where you had like Cancellara 2-3 stats above the rest.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
 
Tafiolmo
Ollfardh wrote:
Can agree with pretty much everything you said except the first one, Van Aert has the bigger engine, while Mathieu has the better acceleration. Of course other stats come into play as well, so assuming Van Aert has top RES so I can live with equal FL.

Either way, I think it's all close unlike 10 years ago where you had like Cancellara 2-3 stats above the rest.


Which is why I think only a few riders should be 82 in this attribute because as you say we haven't got a Cancellara in the peloton. Across the stats Van Aert is better than VDP in nearly everything except acc but I'm thinking that he might be better than Van Aert in flat and/or hill but not totally sure but may well compromise and just make him better in one to balance them better.

One thing I noticed over the last year is VDP's ability to crack and just run out of energy something rarely seen from Van Aert and I guess his bigger engine maybe a vital element here.
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DS7SN13
Ollfardh wrote:
It's hard to say without the res stat also being present, but I'd say


Van Aert 82
Van der Poel 81
Kung 81
Asgreen 80
Sagan 80
Politt 80
Lampaert 80
Van Avermaet 80
Pedersen 80
Cancellara, even if he retired a few years ago 80

Terpsta 79 max for me, when he's not crashing he's also not performing.
B.Jungels 80
S.K.Andersen 79
T.Martin 79
Rowe 79
Stuyven 80
Naesen 80
Vanmarcke 79
Gilbert 78
Benoot 78
Trentin 78 for me, I feel he just fails each time he's close to winning a big race)
Stybar 79
Degenkolb 78
Kristoff 78

Probably forgot a few still.


Pretty good stats actually. I only would change two riders really:

SKA - 80
Sagan - 81

SKA as Tafiolmo said should be an 80, what he did at the TDF was Cancellara-like. Plus that was not the first time he has done something like that (Paris-Tours '18).

Sagan should have the same stat as a MvdP/WvA imo, he has numerous times held of attacks on the flat throughout his career (RVV, P-R, or like today), and the way he rides in crosswinds is only matched by a few (e.g. WCs '16 how he closed that gap).
 
Ollfardh
You're both definitely right about SKA, I forgot some of his performances.

Sagan of a few years ago, I'd agree. Sagan of the last few seasons doesn't have it anymore imho (if we ignore today Pfft ).
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
 
AiZaK
Nobody says Evenepoel??? Cool
 
AiZaK
Filippo Ganna is another beast in flat too
 
Tafiolmo
AiZaK wrote:
Nobody says Evenepoel??? Cool


Amazingly he hasn't been mentioned so far. As for Ganna I think we can assume that his flat is going to be high but his performances have mostly been in individual TT which doesn't use the flat stat and his stage win at the Giro which didn't have much flat but we can probably guess his flat.
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Ollfardh
Both Ganna and Evenepoel really lack results on the flat. Evenepoel there's that Tour of Belgium stage where he destroys Campenaerts but that's it. He should have a very high res already so 77 could be enough.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
 
AiZaK
In my opinion Evenepoel is 79 at least

I think 77 is for riders like Kwiatkowski, Wellens,...
 
alex199412
maybe iam a bit wrong but some of the lead out men like Kluge or Morkov who do noe neceseraly do big acceleration but just keep a massive spped and position at the front for their sprinters should have flat stats in the high 70's aswell
 
AiZaK
Guys, I think its time to put Cavendish SPR 73 or 74 too
 
Tafiolmo
Alex: Yes we have over the years tried to give bigger flats to leadout men and with the increase in the flat stat in general this will also effect these riders too.

Aizak: Agree about Remco needing a higher flat and as for Cavendish, yes his problem is with his sprint of course but the main issue is more his inability to actually get there to sprint much like Greipel, therefore we have concentrated on lowering his flat and res bit by bit so he will find it harder to sprint.
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King_Ric
Well i guess João Almeida does deserve that CR update. As well as a REC update too.
 
Arberg
Van Aert and Van Der Poel = 82 COB
Edited by Arberg on 19-10-2020 13:35
 
bassiii
What about Alaphilippe? I wouldn't give him more than 78/79 CO, but you have to give him at least 76/77 CO imo to be able to compete in-game
 
hansw
As I wrote a few weeks ago, I suggest the following updates: Almeida 75 or 76 in TT (was better than for example Castroviejo, Kelderman, Tratnik, Bjerg in both time trials). Ganna would clearly have to be rated best. So maybe Ganna 82, Dennis 81. With Campenaerts I stick to the fact that he is clearly not as good as Ganna or Dennis, so at most 80. I would give Leknessund and Sütterlin 76 in TT, Walscheid an upgrade. I leave out the big GC riders.
Edited by hansw on 18-10-2020 21:19
 
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