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PCM.daily » Off-Topic » Cycling
Who will win 2020 Tour de France?
Ineos rider (Froome, Bernal, Thomas) Ineos rider (Froome, Bernal, Thomas) 42%[13 Votes]
Jumbo rider (Dumoulin, Roglic, Kruijswijk) Jumbo rider (Dumoulin, Roglic, Kruijswijk) 26%[8 Votes]
French rider (Pinot, Alaphilippe, Bardet) French rider (Pinot, Alaphilippe, Bardet) 29%[9 Votes]
Another rider Another rider 3%[1 Vote]
Total Votes : 31
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Tour de France 2020
df_Trek
Revolutionary choice for organizers to avoid every mythical climb between Ventoux, Tourmalet, Alp d' Huez and Galibier for first time, in a scenario that will be open to many possibilities, and a single ITT with the final climb of LPdBF.

Let's start with a poll with wide options Wink
 
Ollfardh
De Plus for Jumbo. Pogacar 2nd. A Michelton rider completes the podium.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
 
FreitasPCM
Jack Haig.
 
redordead
I would say Pogacar, but I think he will win the Giro next year Pfft
 
kandesbunzler26
With this route (no real time trial and lots of climbing, reducing chances for riders like Roglic, Dumoulin, Froome) it has to be a French rider (hopefully Pinot - especially after this years edition). Otherwise the last hope for a French win would be to prohibit foreign riders from participating...
 
titleist82
This unique kind of route is clearly a desperate attempt by the organizers to have a French winner.
 
Ripley
I'd call it a success if the podium isn't Froome, Bernal and Thomas...

Apart from that, I find ITTs boring to watch, but I think they belong to a proper stage race, a Grand Tour especially. Already this year was a bit of a joke and apparently it's not going to get better. I pity the specialists, might be a dying breed.
 
TheManxMissile
I like a good TT, and at first look i wasn't too impressed with this route. And it definitely has some problems! The Pyrenees look dull as all hell, there is a real lack in TT (the 28 flat km on Stage 20 for me ruin the intent of that stage. A 28km TT in the opening week, and then a MTT up LPdBF to finish would be hugely more exciting).

But the Alps look very interesting. A nice selection of climbs, and focus comes back to some of the overlooked peaks. Madelaine is personal favorite, and i'm pumped for a showdown on the Grand Colombier. Though the stacking of all this climbing late on, to me, means we'll see riders holding back until we get to the Alps. Breakaway riders will be licking their lips at the opportunities in Weeks 1 + 2.

Now the complaint about TT, i've seen a few people making a good point on them. Back when we had 100km+ of TT's riders were taking minutes in the mountains. Ok yes this was because they were all doped as f*ck, but then you had a good balance between TT gains and Mountain gains.
In the last decade we've seen the Mountain gains drop and drop, whilst you can still make the same TT gains now as in the early 2000's.
So whilst the lack of TT looks poor, or against tradition, it does make sense as a way to rebalance the GT and keep the race open.

Although the fact i'm thinking i wish riders doped so we could see these huge Mountain gains again... are drugs good? Pfft
i.imgur.com/UmX5YX1.jpgi.imgur.com/iRneKpI.jpgi.imgur.com/fljmGSP.jpgi.imgur.com/qV5ItIc.jpgimgur.com/dr2BAI6.jpgimgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpgi.imgur.com/C1rG9BW.jpgi.imgur.com/sEDS7gr.jpg
 
ringo182
titleist82 wrote:
This unique kind of route is clearly a desperate attempt by the organizers to have a French winner.


Agreed. Although you could give the French riders a 10 minute head-start and they would find a way to mess it up.
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
 
Ripley
So whilst the lack of TT looks poor, or against tradition, it does make sense as a way to rebalance the GT and keep the race open.


Fair point. But couldn't we just shorten the ITTs? Just one short, flat, "real" ITT would be fine by me.
 
ringo182
Ripley wrote:
So whilst the lack of TT looks poor, or against tradition, it does make sense as a way to rebalance the GT and keep the race open.


Fair point. But couldn't we just shorten the ITTs? Just one short, flat, "real" ITT would be fine by me.


Surely it's not for the organisers to move the goalposts to change the balance. It's for the riders to realise that the dynamics of cycling have changed and being a pure climber alone is often not enough to win a grand tour these days. You need to be a solid all round rider.

The climbers need to either improve their TT skills, or find a way to drop the stronger all round riders in the mountains.
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
 
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TheManxMissile
@Ripley - I'd much rather see a 28km ITT in Week 1, and then an MTT up LPdBF to finish. That would be good for specialists, and when did the Tour last have an MTT?

@Ringo - How do riders make it so they can gain minutes on a mountain stage and still recovery enough to go again the next day... oh, i know! Doping!
But without that option the dynamics of cycling have changed, and for an organiser to make the best race for TV they need to keep it close and open, and that means cutting TT's.
Best GT's of recent years? The mountain heavy, TT short, Giro's and Vueltas...
Edited by TheManxMissile on 17-10-2019 09:10
i.imgur.com/UmX5YX1.jpgi.imgur.com/iRneKpI.jpgi.imgur.com/fljmGSP.jpgi.imgur.com/qV5ItIc.jpgimgur.com/dr2BAI6.jpgimgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpgi.imgur.com/C1rG9BW.jpgi.imgur.com/sEDS7gr.jpg
 
Ollfardh
It's cobbles we need, not TTs!
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
 
Fabianski
Well, the question is what kind of a rider you want to win a GT. If it's the most complete one, we should have cobbles and longer ITTs. If you want to favor rich teams, add a long TTT. If you want a climber to win, have as few ITT kms as possible (or just MTTs).
Even though it's not given that a "pure climber" will win next year's TdF, they should at least have pretty good chances. And as it was said before, breakaway riders will be happy with the parcours, as I don't think any team will want to defend Yellow from stage 2 on.
i.imgur.com/Ivui2bO.png
 
Ripley
@TMM: Exactly. Make the flat ITT 20km if you worry about large time gaps. But I'm also with Ollfardh, a stage race should feature a lot of terrains, including cobbles. But it's tough to find the "quality" of Paris-Roubaix sectors, we often see some inner city cobblestone roads, which aren't much of a challenge.
 
df_Trek
I'm a great supporter of cobbles in GTs, but seems that organizers don't put a real selective stage on them to avoid big teams complaining...
 
ringo182
df_Trek wrote:
I'm a great supporter of cobbles in GTs, but seems that organizers don't put a real selective stage on them to avoid big teams complaining...


They can be quite dangerous, esp in the wet with riders who aren't used to them. They don't want to risk taking out all the GC riders in a big crash early in the race.

At the end of the day the cobble specialist have the cobble classics, so there is no need to really include them. For TT specialists, the Grand Tour TTs are the pinnacle of their season, unless they are truly elite and have a chance at the WC.

That's why it's a bit unfair to restrict TT miles to try to manufacture a result for a particular set of riders, i.e. the pure climbers who are crap at doing anything other than climb.
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
 
df_Trek
I think that 25km ITT is enough for an all-rounder to put several gap between him and pure climber, despite what Jumbo manager said, last year Vuelta was killed by the ITT imo.
About the danger of cobbles it's just a pretext to justify low skilled riders...because a wet downhill can be dangerous the same, in every GT there are many DNF for crashes without a meter of cobbles
 
Ollfardh
Also time trialers not getting any chances? They have an national, a continental and a world championship to look forward too each year (and even an olympic next year). How many shots do cobblers get to win a title?

I don't see a difference between including a time trial, a cobble stage or an echelon stage in a GT, they're all a specific skills a rider should have.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
 
Shonak
Really don't care about time trials, never have, never will.. they are slightly more interesting than the rest days :lol:
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