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PCM.daily » Pro Cycling Manager 2018 » PCM 18: PCM.daily Projects
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PCM.daily Stat Discussion
Selwink
The obligatory Dutch CT rider post:

Jasper de Laat (Metec) could use a PRL and maybe TT boost after winning the hilly TT for the Topcompetitie. In just 16 km he beat the number 2 by more than half a minute.
Cees Bol (SEG) has been underrated. He's been ridiculously consistent this season with results like a 2nd place in GP Marcel Kint (behind Bouhanni, but ahead of Merlier) and many more. With a 2nd place in the Circuit des Ardennes a higher HI stat seems good too. In fact, he's been so strong he already signed with Sunweb for next year.
Julius van den Berg (SEG) also needs a bump. His COB could get a serious increase. He won the Midden Brabant Poort Omloop and came 2nd in Paris-Roubaix U23. Maybe a small TT increase too (Dutch NC U23 last year).
Hartthijs De Vries (119) may have left Roompot, but he came back very quickly. Especially his TT has become very good, as Dutch champ U23. Maybe a general boost is good as well since he's been so strong that he'll be trainee at LTJ this season (along with Jan Maas).
Johim Ariesen (Metec) could maybe be downgraded slightly. He got some results this year but the oppostion wasn't that great. 70 SPR should be fine for him.
Thijs De Lange (Metec) needs a TT and PRL boost along with De Laat, as it was De Lange who came 2nd in that TT.
Rick Ottema (Alecto) could use an overall boost for winning the Topcompetitie, but I think his HI especially should be better.
Rick van Breda (Monkey Town) could use a COB boost for winning the Omloop van de Braakman, the toughest COB race in the Topcompetitie. 3rd in Midden-Brabant isn't too bad either.

And if you need any inspiration for some good free agents in the Netherlands, I can at the very least recommend Kelvin van den Dool, with good HI stat mainly.
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redordead
Izidor Penko has just won silver medal in the U23 European Championships ITT. He is still classed as a climber in the DB, although in a recent interview he said he has been focusing on TT-ing now for the last 2 years.

Think he should be now classed as a Time-trialist and get an increase in TT and Prologue?
 
Agent David
I noticed mistake on Josef Cerny, because he won Czech championship in RR and TT, he should be upgraded. I would upgrade other Elkov riders, too, I think Polnicky and Kukrle. I looked at other Czech riders, and I would give Kreuziger 79 hills.
Sorry for my bad English.
Edited by Agent David on 15-07-2018 05:24
 
Tafiolmo
As mentioned some days ago here are the revised sprinter stats, now that the majority of sprint stages are over in the Tour. This is what I have more or less decided upon taking into consideration the whole season in general and things like sprint trains etc.

I've also tried to make as much use of differences between sprint and acc, so a rider with lesser sprint may not be weaker than somebody with a point more especially if he has a few points more in acc (often leads to an interesting situation in game) will also look to test these before the main EP release as well.

Hardest decision is for Kittel 2 victories this season and for now decided to put him same sprint and acc (but to be fair not certain there and could come good later in the Tour if he gets over the mtns. Also not sure of what to do with Cav either and seems to harsh I think to downgrade them further at this stage.

Also most of the riders here have had changes those that aren't here are as they were with 78 and below

As always ideas and suggestions welcome as these are not the final stats yet.

Groenewegen 81/82
Kittel 81/81
Greipel 81/78 or 81/79
Gaviria 80/83
Cavendish 80/81
Viviani 80/81 or 79/82
Demare 80/80
Kristoff 80/78 or 80/77
Sagan 79/83
Ewan 79/82
Bennett 79/80
Bouhanni 78/79
Laporte 78/78
Degenkolb 78/77
Colbrelli 77/79
Edited by Tafiolmo on 15-07-2018 00:02
pcmdaily.com/files/exppack/PCM2020/dbteambanner2021.png
 
Yellow Jersey
My thoughts:

Groenewegen 82/81
Kittel 81/80 (low flat and backups, and hills)
Greipel 81/79 (very strong backups/flat)
Gaviria 81/83
Cavendish 79/81 (same as kittel)
Viviani 80/81 (better hill, (discussed before))
Demare 80/80
Kristoff 79/77 (I think you understand why)
Sagan 79/82
Ewan 79/83
Bennett 79/81
Bouhanni no idea lmao
Laporte 78/78
Degenkolb 78/77
Colbrelli 77/79
 
haasje33
@Yellow Jersey: would be interesting to know the reasons behind this. Is it just personal preference or do you have other motivations for these stats?
Inactive due to personal reasons.
 
Tafiolmo
Yellow Jersey wrote:
My thoughts:

Groenewegen 82/81
Kittel 81/80 (low flat and backups, and hills)
Greipel 81/79 (very strong backups/flat)
Gaviria 81/83
Cavendish 79/81 (same as kittel)
Viviani 80/81 (better hill, (discussed before))
Demare 80/80
Kristoff 79/77 (I think you understand why)
Sagan 79/82
Ewan 79/83
Bennett 79/81
Bouhanni no idea lmao
Laporte 78/78
Degenkolb 78/77
Colbrelli 77/79


Some good stuff here and had considered and considering some of those.

Firstly if I was using 82 as top stat which I may still do Groenewegen would be on it and that stretches the matrix out more which is not a bad thing.

Groenewegen- Disagree that his acc should be lower as he comes in strong right at the death
Kittel- Might be too early to drop him so much and again could be against type to have his acc lower than his sprint but yes his flat could be looked at and no need for hills as always has been terrible
Greipel- You've made him a bit better but 78 or 79 acc would be ok and do like 79 now that you mentioned it. I actually had him 79 acc but changed for some reason, need to remember why! his backup stats though are good
Gaviria- If the matrix were stretched to 82 then he would be 81
Cavendish- Like Kittel and should we write him off as one of the very best?
Kristoff- can still deliver a big sprint but with slow acc and I think 80/78-77 is good
Sagan- Wouldn't lower Sagan's acc anymore as he needs all the help he can get to be in contention for green, even with 79/83 could be a struggle in game.
Ewan- also thinking of 79/83 too
Bennett- Could go to 81 acc but might be too generous
Edited by Tafiolmo on 14-07-2018 23:54
pcmdaily.com/files/exppack/PCM2020/dbteambanner2021.png
 
quadsas
Rasmus Tiller a bit low? Won Nationals last year, took 2nd this year, Herman Dahl has also been great this year. Hagen has been Joker leader past two years, but since Halvorsen leaving both Rasmus and Herman have delivered
 
Jorge14
What about Remco Evenepoel? The guy is crashing all in the junior calendar.
 
Ollfardh
Jorge14 wrote:
What about Remco Evenepoel? The guy is crashing all in the junior calendar.


He couldn't become a pro this year because he wasn't 18 yet, but in 2017 he has already signed a contract for 2019 with Axeon. I'm not sure if that can be put in the DB like that though.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
 
sammyt93
Ollfardh wrote:
Jorge14 wrote:
What about Remco Evenepoel? The guy is crashing all in the junior calendar.


He couldn't become a pro this year because he wasn't 18 yet, but in 2017 he has already signed a contract for 2019 with Axeon. I'm not sure if that can be put in the DB like that though.


He could be put on Axeon's roster, with a unique injury (think you used to be able to do that for doping bans that wouldn't reoccur), would just need to guarantee his contract isn't first season only.
 
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Yellow Jersey
haasje33 wrote:
@Yellow Jersey: would be interesting to know the reasons behind this. Is it just personal preference or do you have other motivations for these stats?


Groenewegen 82/81
Spoiler
As mentioned by many, Gronewegen is really strong this year, he was already last year. Very strong powerhouse sprinter, similar to Greipel but faster (similar to Greipel when he won 3/4 stages in a Tour some years ago)

Kittel 81/80
Spoiler
He remains very strong, positioning has nothing to do with spr skill but he does seem to be lacking that edge nonetheless.. comparing him to Gronewegen, it's impossible for me to give him the same spr

Greipel 81/79
Spoiler
He had injuries this season, but he does have the power. We saw that some days ago that he still has what it takes to win a Tour sprint, just doesnt have a very good leadout and isnt great with positioning. Also, I know for a fact (strava)that he has massive power numbers, mainly in sprint (1800/1900W) and also has a very strong sustainable power. He won Dunkirque cobbled stage solo, a hilly cobbled stage.. he absolutely deserves strong backups.

Gaviria 81/83
Spoiler
California, Tour, last year's Giro.. plenty of dominant and really easy wins for him. Leadout helps but he is really fast and can manage well the uphill sprints.Also a light sprinter (like Cav, Viviani, Ewan) so he clearly shows a lot of accelaration (unlike Greipel, Gronewegen, Kittel)

Cavendish 79/81
Spoiler
He did win that stage in Oman or Dubai or something, shows that he still has the speed, but yeah he doesnt have good form (likely cause of recorrent injuries). Also a light sprinter, strong accelaration.

Viviani 80/81
Spoiler
Talked about Viviani a lot already. Italian NC's, Plouay and Hamburg last year. And this year's dominance in Giro and other races (plus he was there at the end of SanRemo but bonked in the sprint) (also a brilliant Gent-Wevelgem where he was the fastest but shit positioning). Light very explosive sprinter.

Demare 80/80
Spoiler
He's shown some spurts of good sprinting (eg.Suisse, Paris-Nice, Algarve). But doesnt have that top speed as others. He has good endurance and is very strong in short hill sprints, also good on cobbles. Clearly a resistant sprinter, who is able to sprint massively after a long uphill effort

Kristoff 79/77
Spoiler
Last year's WC was the only evidence of top sprinting by Kristoff last year, but I took into consideration endurance, hills and home race (all which helped him, plus good tactics as Sagan and others had attacked with 2Km to go). All his victories seem to be with low competition, despite being many (last year's case. He is good in very long sprints, and downhill sprints.. but he doesnt have good top speed, not even close to the best, and doesn't have a good accelaration at all compared to the best to. His carachteristic low cadence kinda shows that he doesnt have that burst of speed. He has very strong endurance and resistance (eg.2015 Tour de Flandres, last year's WC) but only in special conditions he can battle with the best.

Sagan 79/82
Spoiler
Sagan's sprint is usually overated cause he does place good in them. He is a positioning mastermind, which explains his good and constant results..but top speed not really (last year's worlds he beat Kristoff, 2016 was Cav and Boonen, not absolute top sprinters). He is very good with tactics and positioning, but he does indeed have a very good acc, victories like this year's Gent-Wevelgem shows he does deserve a great spr/acc.. but like Kristoff, he is also adapted to long races and long efforts (in relation to other top sprinters). I can show his top speed cant match the best, this year's Tour he beat Colbrelli in both sprints, far from a top sprinter. And yesterday or two days ago, he sprinted in the wheel of Gaviria and couldn't even hold it.

Ewan 79/83
Spoiler
see Viviani. Very light, capable of dealing with hills (see, stirling in tour down under, laguna seca in cali this year). Very strong accelaration but not enough to win pure flat sprints against the likes of Gaviria, Kittel, Gronewegen. Easily comparable to Sagan (see California sprint results)

Bennett 79/81
Spoiler
Giro was an excellent indicator, but he's been very strong for a while (10 victories last year, 5 WorldTour level). No he cant battle with the top but he can battle with them.

Laporte 78/78
Spoiler
As many of his racing is french calendar I didnt follow him so much, But in the Tour and Paris-Nice he was there on flat sprint doing Top5's, without a good leadout.

Degenkolb 78/77
Spoiler
Just doesnt have his sprint of some years ago. (without counting today's brilliant cobble ride). 2018 and 2017 only saw him with 6 podiums in WT sprints, none of them a win.. he has good power but far from the top.

Colbrelli 77/79
Spoiler
He is very explosive, not gonna talk about the hills, hes proven his skills in there.. I recall he won a Paris-Nice flat sprint last year, also Suisse this year. He is very constant, good positioning, and when the sprints are more punchy sometimes he can scramble for a win if he has the legs.

 
jensi251
I do not really see Laporte better than Degenkolb. It is just one point difference, but still.
 
Atlantius
clamel wrote:
Sorry but Ahlstrand hasn't stopped all together. I saw him in the Swedish Crit Championship and he looked fine. Riding for a team but guess doesn't put so much into it. Just sad he didn't get any contract last year.
Think deleting him would be premature, but sure downgrade.

You didn't mention the Swedish Crit champion Emil Andersson. He could get into the DB I think.
Well he isn't that young so he might not be.

Ahlstrand haven't raced either SweCup races, any of the Nordic UCI-races or the regular NC. Sure he can be kept in to make up numbers, but he should be far from the level he is right now IMO. Being in the crit champs doesn't count for much when he doesn't race anything similar to what is raced in PCM.

Emil Andersson could be added as a strong flat rider with the ability to handle hills (though not his biggest strength) though (he have done well in both UCI races and SweCup races as well). Good back-up stats is probably the most important for him.
https://www.procy...-andersson

Hugo Forssell could perhaps go in as well as a mid-level rouleur.
https://www.procy...?id=206195
Edited by Atlantius on 16-07-2018 09:24

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CDrake
Yellow Jersey wrote:
haasje33 wrote:
@Yellow Jersey: would be interesting to know the reasons behind this. Is it just personal preference or do you have other motivations for these stats?


Groenewegen 82/81
Spoiler
As mentioned by many, Gronewegen is really strong this year, he was already last year. Very strong powerhouse sprinter, similar to Greipel but faster (similar to Greipel when he won 3/4 stages in a Tour some years ago)

Kittel 81/80
Spoiler
He remains very strong, positioning has nothing to do with spr skill but he does seem to be lacking that edge nonetheless.. comparing him to Gronewegen, it's impossible for me to give him the same spr

Greipel 81/79
Spoiler
He had injuries this season, but he does have the power. We saw that some days ago that he still has what it takes to win a Tour sprint, just doesnt have a very good leadout and isnt great with positioning. Also, I know for a fact (strava)that he has massive power numbers, mainly in sprint (1800/1900W) and also has a very strong sustainable power. He won Dunkirque cobbled stage solo, a hilly cobbled stage.. he absolutely deserves strong backups.

Gaviria 81/83
Spoiler
California, Tour, last year's Giro.. plenty of dominant and really easy wins for him. Leadout helps but he is really fast and can manage well the uphill sprints.Also a light sprinter (like Cav, Viviani, Ewan) so he clearly shows a lot of accelaration (unlike Greipel, Gronewegen, Kittel)

Cavendish 79/81
Spoiler
He did win that stage in Oman or Dubai or something, shows that he still has the speed, but yeah he doesnt have good form (likely cause of recorrent injuries). Also a light sprinter, strong accelaration.

Viviani 80/81
Spoiler
Talked about Viviani a lot already. Italian NC's, Plouay and Hamburg last year. And this year's dominance in Giro and other races (plus he was there at the end of SanRemo but bonked in the sprint) (also a brilliant Gent-Wevelgem where he was the fastest but shit positioning). Light very explosive sprinter.

Demare 80/80
Spoiler
He's shown some spurts of good sprinting (eg.Suisse, Paris-Nice, Algarve). But doesnt have that top speed as others. He has good endurance and is very strong in short hill sprints, also good on cobbles. Clearly a resistant sprinter, who is able to sprint massively after a long uphill effort

Kristoff 79/77
Spoiler
Last year's WC was the only evidence of top sprinting by Kristoff last year, but I took into consideration endurance, hills and home race (all which helped him, plus good tactics as Sagan and others had attacked with 2Km to go). All his victories seem to be with low competition, despite being many (last year's case. He is good in very long sprints, and downhill sprints.. but he doesnt have good top speed, not even close to the best, and doesn't have a good accelaration at all compared to the best to. His carachteristic low cadence kinda shows that he doesnt have that burst of speed. He has very strong endurance and resistance (eg.2015 Tour de Flandres, last year's WC) but only in special conditions he can battle with the best.

Sagan 79/82
Spoiler
Sagan's sprint is usually overated cause he does place good in them. He is a positioning mastermind, which explains his good and constant results..but top speed not really (last year's worlds he beat Kristoff, 2016 was Cav and Boonen, not absolute top sprinters). He is very good with tactics and positioning, but he does indeed have a very good acc, victories like this year's Gent-Wevelgem shows he does deserve a great spr/acc.. but like Kristoff, he is also adapted to long races and long efforts (in relation to other top sprinters). I can show his top speed cant match the best, this year's Tour he beat Colbrelli in both sprints, far from a top sprinter. And yesterday or two days ago, he sprinted in the wheel of Gaviria and couldn't even hold it.

Ewan 79/83
Spoiler
see Viviani. Very light, capable of dealing with hills (see, stirling in tour down under, laguna seca in cali this year). Very strong accelaration but not enough to win pure flat sprints against the likes of Gaviria, Kittel, Gronewegen. Easily comparable to Sagan (see California sprint results)

Bennett 79/81
Spoiler
Giro was an excellent indicator, but he's been very strong for a while (10 victories last year, 5 WorldTour level). No he cant battle with the top but he can battle with them.

Laporte 78/78
Spoiler
As many of his racing is french calendar I didnt follow him so much, But in the Tour and Paris-Nice he was there on flat sprint doing Top5's, without a good leadout.

Degenkolb 78/77
Spoiler
Just doesnt have his sprint of some years ago. (without counting today's brilliant cobble ride). 2018 and 2017 only saw him with 6 podiums in WT sprints, none of them a win.. he has good power but far from the top.

Colbrelli 77/79
Spoiler
He is very explosive, not gonna talk about the hills, hes proven his skills in there.. I recall he won a Paris-Nice flat sprint last year, also Suisse this year. He is very constant, good positioning, and when the sprints are more punchy sometimes he can scramble for a win if he has the legs.


Shouldn't Matthews be in that list as well? He won green in last year's Giro and I feel like he's really weak sprint-wise in the original db
 
marcoplv95
Guys shouldnt we consider to put 81 as max stat? In recent we have not seen any sprinter dominating like Kittel or Greipel used to do
 
marcoplv95
Groenewegen: 82/82 with 75FLA(-2)
Spoiler
The best pure sprinter actually, imho, but as seen in first Tour stages he doesn't show a good positioning. And he doesnt have good results in classics if im not wrong

Kittel: 82/80 with 74FLA(-2)
Spoiler
Still powerful top speed, but hardly finds right place without Leadout, that's why i'd downgrade his FLA. 81/80 probably fits him better but i wouldn't downgrade him so much...

Gaviria: 81/83 with 75FLA(-2)
Spoiler
He's top sprinter now, however, he has the best leadout and doesn't have good results in Classics, like Groenewegen

Greipel: 81/79 with 69HIL(+1)
Spoiler
As for Kittel, still has powerful top speed, but has better positioning I think

Cavendish: 80/82
Spoiler
He' not the Cavendish we used to see, but I still wouldnt downgrade him too much

Viviani: 80/82 with 76FLA(+1), 73HIL(+3) 73COB(+1), 76STA(+2), 76REC(+2)
Spoiler
You know, I talked a lot about him, I think he's so underrated.
Good FLA because he has great positioning, we seen at Giro that he doesn't really need a train, he always finds the best position he wants; And he's a classic sprinter too, like UEC, GW, Amburg...that's why he should have higher backup stats, at same level as the other sprinters. In few posts ago i posted a wider explanation.

Demare: 80/80, I wouldn't change anything actually

Kristoff: 80/77, I wouldn't change anything actually

Sagan: 79/83
Spoiler
That's hard...he probably deserves 80SPR, but with 83ACC he would be better than Gabiria with these high backup stats, or with 80/82 he would be like Viviani and Cavendish who are different sprinters, anyways he doesn't seem to have very powerful top speed, but once he's drafting sprint he can beat anyone. He's still going to be still one of the best


Ewan, Bouhanni, Degenkolb: I don't know if their stats are okay or not tbh, the second probably needs downgrade, but not too much, as always.

Bennett: 79/81 with 75FLA(-1) and 64MON(+4)
Spoiler
Probably someone would focus on his stats compared to Viviani's, specially for HIL. I think that he's overall better in uphill than Viviani, but considering the actual HIL stat on PCM, Vivani is better: he has impressed at ITA NC, where he needed 96 effort compared to PCM, where HIL is the only effective Stat.


Colbrelli: 77/80


 
Tafiolmo
Plenty of good suggestions here and again based on the concept of using 81 as top stat I have them like so with flat in brackets also planty of changes have been done with some of there other stats. Also impossible really to make Sagan and Matthews real green jersey contenders (best idea is to raise their sprint just for the Tour but there could be room for Matthews to be better) Laporte is at 78 to keep him close to Bouhanni so there could be competition between them. Again these stats will again be affected by the possible 2 sprint stages that remain in the Tour

Groenewegen 81/82 (76)
Kittel 81/81 (75)
Greipel 81/79 (77)
Gaviria 80/83 (76)
Cavendish 80/81 (75)
Viviani 80/81 (75)
Demare 80/80 (78)
Kristoff 80/77 (78)
Sagan 79/83 (80)
Ewan 79/82 (74)
Bennett 79/80 (76)
Bouhanni 78/79 (74)
Laporte 78/78 (76)
Degenkolb 78/77 (77)
Colbrelli 77/80 (75)
Matthews 77/79 (77)
Edited by Tafiolmo on 16-07-2018 22:22
pcmdaily.com/files/exppack/PCM2020/dbteambanner2021.png
 
Yellow Jersey
Except for Cav, everything seems ok.. but at this point it may just be personal way of view
 
Tafiolmo
Yellow Jersey wrote:
Except for Cav, everything seems ok.. but at this point it may just be personal way of view


I have problems with Cav, Kittel, Viviani and even Ewan! but in the end impossible to get right in a season of sprinting uncertainty
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