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Dutch Eredivisie 2011-12
JustinWK
John Guidetti 3
Twente 0

Banana
Dwight K. Schrute: 'I'm not a hero. Im just a mere defender of the office. You know who is a hero? Hiro from Heroes. That's a hero. And Bono'.
 
MitchNL
Internet went down here, so I couldn't update everything till now. So here are the results of Saturday again, as everybody knows them already Wink

NAC Breda 2-1 AZ
SC Heerenveen 1-5 PSV
Feyenoord/John Guidetti 3-2 FC Twente
Ajax 4-0 ADO Den Haag
Edited by MitchNL on 21-12-2011 19:47
 
CrueTrue
So, apparently a spectator entered the field in the AZ-Ajax cup match and kicked the goalkeeper. He kicked the spectator and got the red card which made the entire AZ team leave the field. They didn't come back, and the match has been suspended...

https://eredivisie...orter.html
 
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JustinWK
Well I don't blame Esteban for attacking the lunatic, and according to the rulebook Nijhuis is allowed to give him a red card for these actions, but I also understand the anger of Verbeek because it changes the entire match.

Ajax will probably get the win but its a sad sad thing that one man has ruined a match like this.
Dwight K. Schrute: 'I'm not a hero. Im just a mere defender of the office. You know who is a hero? Hiro from Heroes. That's a hero. And Bono'.
 
CrueTrue
Kicking a man who's lying down and is defenceless is crazy. It's fine to pacify him, but what Esteban does is an assault.

Isn't Esteban charged for being violent to his wife or something like that?
 
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JustinWK
No his (ex) girlfriend dropped those charges as they were mostlikely false accusations.

Well but CT don't forget that in this case the man attacked him first, if Esteban isn't watching he wouldn't have blocked his kick/hit and who knows what he's got on him. I mean it is still easy to smuggle fireworks into the stadium so you can easily bring a knife aswell. Maybe its overexegeratting but I don't have any problems with Esteban defending himself. When he's on the ground he should have stopped but the main concencus (even from Ajax fans on the internet) is that the fan got what he deserved and they even praise Esteban and Verbeek.
Dwight K. Schrute: 'I'm not a hero. Im just a mere defender of the office. You know who is a hero? Hiro from Heroes. That's a hero. And Bono'.
 
CrueTrue
Yes, he can defend himself which is what I meant by "pacify". But when he is on the ground, Esteban continues kicking the guy at least two times which was totally unnecessary.

Anyhow, keep me updated on the situation (winner of the match, ban for Esteban etc.)
 
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sam1196
- Ajax is responsible that crazy guys like him can't enter the pitch during a game.

- I don't think Esteban knew what was going on a the moment. I think it was some kind of reflex to "strike back". That's called self-defense. Although you can argue on this one if it's self defense or not.

-Red card was not the best decision i think.
VINO VINO VINO VINO VINO VINO VINO VINO VINO
 
FuglsangxTH3
Totally agreed with sam what a wirdo was that guy man

And a ridicoulis dissicion of the ref
i41.tinypic.com/ig9r2w.jpg
 
sam1196
I'm glad i'm not the only one that thinks that way Grin btw AZ coach showed that he has much personality. Sending his team of like they're on training pitch. Respect.
VINO VINO VINO VINO VINO VINO VINO VINO VINO
 
CrueTrue
If assaulting a spectator - no matter the reason - shouldn't give a red card, I don't know what should.
 
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sam1196
just don't penalize him... just imagine some crazy hooligan storming at you. You're just able to avoid his tackle with streched leg. He's lying on the ground 1 metre further. Are you going to sit down next to him and say like a primary school teacher:" don't do that!"? Grin i don't think so. I mean, you can't ban the human instinct i a game of football.
VINO VINO VINO VINO VINO VINO VINO VINO VINO
 
FuglsangxTH3
Well the man need to be this night in a police cel and Esteban is going to charge him. ( if im sayibg it right)
i41.tinypic.com/ig9r2w.jpg
 
sam1196
yeah Estaban is charging that mad guy indeed. And right he is.
VINO VINO VINO VINO VINO VINO VINO VINO VINO
 
FreitasPCM
All I can say is that I applaud Verbeek's attitude.
 
sam1196
FreitasPCM wrote:
All I can say is that I applaud Verbeek's attitude.


+1
VINO VINO VINO VINO VINO VINO VINO VINO VINO
 
JustinWK
I'm curious however whether that guy was mentally disabled (no pun intended I'm being serious) Since the only way to get on is through the section where all the handicapped fans are sitting with their wheelchairs and such.

Well right now there is even a possibility that they start over again if Ajax is also penalized for failing to provide enough security on the pitch.

EDIT: Well he was apparently sitting in the regular section so forget what I said but witnesses have said that the hooligan dared others around him that he would dare to attack the goalie for 50 euros and make the headlines. Some even say that he could have even been an AZ fan but thats uncertain.
Edited by JustinWK on 22-12-2011 10:33
Dwight K. Schrute: 'I'm not a hero. Im just a mere defender of the office. You know who is a hero? Hiro from Heroes. That's a hero. And Bono'.
 
cunego59
I'd really hope for the match to be repeated. That would be the fairest thing to do imo. I understand CrueTrue that kicking the man lying on the ground was "false", that was my first intention as well, but in that situation, his actions were affect based. I mean, you're extremely tense (as it's a football match) and all of a sudden, someone comes from behind and attacks you. I'm honestly not sure what I would do.

I'm also not sure what I would have done being the referee in that situation... I agree with all of you, though, that I have a lot of respect for AZ's coach. I think I read somewhere that in past years, there were several fights with Ajax Hools involved that were caused by similar situations (fans entering the field), so abandoning the match might even have prevented that.


 
Wilier
sam1196 wrote:
- I don't think Esteban knew what was going on a the moment. I think it was some kind of reflex to "strike back". That's called self-defense. Although you can argue on this one if it's self defense or not.


I agree that he can defend himself. However, when the idiot was on the ground (seconds before security got him) it wasn't self-defense anymore. And you just can't do that in front of tv-cameras. The idiot got what he deserved though. Imo they should've dragged the idiot out of sight of the tv-cameras and then kick the shit out of him.

-Red card was not the best decision i think.

The red card was according to the rules. If the referee doesn't follow the rules, than what's the use of a referee?

Anyhow, it's a sad day for Dutch football. The only positive note is that security for football matches will be sharpened in the future. At least, I hope they will.
Edited by Wilier on 22-12-2011 14:47
 
MitchNL
The red card was dismissed by the KNVB today. They are deciding between now and Wednesday what's happening with the match.

I'm fully behind Esteban in this situation. That idiot shouldn't even be in the stadium (he had a stadium ban), and that he can walk on to the pitch that easily shows how shit the security is at Dutch football matches.
Edited by MitchNL on 22-12-2011 20:07
 
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